Brass pressure problems in Mauser build

[swheeler]

Enjoy the Whelen, it's a good cartridge!

[vzerone]

Gentlemen thank you for all your assistance, now to get the rest of these formed up. Will keep everyone up to date on the final conclusions after formed and performance level determined.
From my conversation with hornady they did not seem to worried about the extra velocity and they have to be aware that this stuff is being used it over the hill actions. The rep did say they actually figure on getting I believe 85 fps faster than what they label as. Kind of curious to see what it's leverevolution clocks in my 30-30.

That leverevolution really works. Larry Gibson did a big test on it one that I remember. You could search for here.

[runfiverun]

did I really write ejector?
slap.. eh I ain't fixin it.

[vzerone]

did I really write ejector?
slap.. eh I ain't fixin it.

Now had it been a more modern push feed you'd been right runfiverun

[swheeler]

Lamar the Devil made me do it! I had a really good idea what you meant, sorry man.

[runfiverun]

was probably half thinking about the Bergara rifle I been talking Waco into buying for a couple of days now.
he finally bought it, so we should be seeing some pretty small group pictures from him shortly.

[kfd518]

That brass looks stretched in the second and 4th pics. See the ring. Are you sure your chamber is straight and not wallowed out on one side? Did you hand ream it?

I know this is response #2 to this post but in investigating this further, I've determined that swollen spot is where the claw extractor pushes the round against the chamber. I've measure this spot over and over on several cases and it comes up to .4680 all the way around multiple cases. Now this being bulged out where it is I'm able to locate where it is in relationship to the extractor due to the little divots my bolt face leaves in the primer. But the measurement tells me the chamber is round within .0005"

[vzerone]

I know this is response #2 to this post but in investigating this further, I've determined that swollen spot is where the claw extractor pushes the round against the chamber. I've measure this spot over and over on several cases and it comes up to .4680 all the way around multiple cases. Now this being bulged out where it is I'm able to locate where it is in relationship to the extractor due to the little divots my bolt face leaves in the primer. But the measurement tells me the chamber is round within .0005"

I thought it was an optical illusion more or less.

[kfd518]

Well one side is a smooth line head to shoulder extractor side is bulged out from being pushed over by the extractor against the chamber wall. But the measurement is concentric

[vzerone]

Well there goes out the window for controled feed lovers over the push feed with their ejector pushing the cartridge to one side in the chamber and not helping in accuracy. Appears the Mauser claw might do that too!!!

[kfd518]

Well yeah when you rotate the bolt to close it the opening in the face rotates to the left side of the receiver. Only way to have something dead center in the chamber is a falling block with an extractor that rises up when the block falls. Even then unless perfectly reamed chamber has perfectly formed brass it's not going to sit dead straight. Whoever said a controlled feed doesn't push a round against the left even slightly only has semi controlled feed. The extractor should move about .004" out when a cartridge is fed under it . The only way around it is a deeper extractor groove in the brass and then once again its only semi controlled. If you stop the bolt it will fall out on extraction if it does not have enough tension.

[vzerone]

Well yeah when you rotate the bolt to close it the opening in the face rotates to the left side of the receiver. Only way to have something dead center in the chamber is a falling block with an extractor that rises up when the block falls. Even then unless perfectly reamed chamber has perfectly formed brass it's not going to sit dead straight. Whoever said a controlled feed doesn't push a round against the left even slightly only has semi controlled feed. The extractor should move about .004" out when a cartridge is fed under it . The only way around it is a deeper extractor groove in the brass and then once again its only semi controlled. If you stop the bolt it will fall out on extraction if it does not have enough tension.

Or neck size only!!!

[kfd518]

Neck size only won't help this situation, you can't control the body orientation of the brass when it loads in the chamber unless loading one at a time. Neck can only support it so much.... the bulge is still on one side of the cartridge but even all the way around. Hopefully I'm making sense.

[vzerone]

Neck size only won't help this situation, you can't control the body orientation of the brass when it loads in the chamber unless loading one at a time. Neck can only support it so much.... the bulge is still on one side of the cartridge but even all the way around. Hopefully I'm making sense.

When you're talking of the bulge do you mean the case expansion near the web? Here's what a bulge is to me, it's protusion at some point not uniform with the rest of the case expansion. Case is not even all around.

[tomme boy]

Most every Ruger and Mauser does this. I was always under the assumption that it was from a oversized chamber and the extractor pushing on the case head seemed to always show this.

I put together a few mausers that showed this issue. I set the chamber back and it went away. I have picked up thousands of pieces of brass at our local range. And I could always tell what the gun was when I seen brass like this and it was always a Ruger or a mauser. And another thing I noticed was that Win brass seemed to do this more than other types. The base of the brass in front of the extractor groove was always a little smaller than other makers. Next it was Federal.

With that smaller brass and a loose chamber this is what happens

[runfiverun]

that might be why some Guy's under cut their claw type extractors.

[tomme boy]

Could be. But I think it is more of a brass manufacturer issue too. US manufacturers use a too small case head on some of the European cases. They were using the US based head of .470'' instead of whatever 6.5 Swede called for. And 303 Brit is WAY too small compared to MIL brass.

Measure some case heads right above the extractor grove and see what you get. I bet it will be around 0.460". I have not measured any in a few years so please let me know what you find.

[vzerone]

Could be. But I think it is more of a brass manufacturer issue too. US manufacturers use a too small case head on some of the European cases. They were using the US based head of .470'' instead of whatever 6.5 Swede called for. And 303 Brit is WAY too small compared to MIL brass.

Measure some case heads right above the extractor grove and see what you get. I bet it will be around 0.460". I have not measured any in a few years so please let me know what you find.

That's why when you have an undersize case such as you mention the first time you fire them you wrap a 1/8th inch wide strip of Scotch Tape around the head right in front of the extractor groove. You make the strip of tape long enough to insure a snug fit in the chamber. These must be finger seated and it's a beat, but it lets the case sweel evenly all the ways around.

[kfd518]

Could be. But I think it is more of a brass manufacturer issue too. US manufacturers use a too small case head on some of the European cases. They were using the US based head of .470'' instead of whatever 6.5 Swede called for. And 303 Brit is WAY too small compared to MIL brass.

Measure some case heads right above the extractor grove and see what you get. I bet it will be around 0.460". I have not measured any in a few years so please let me know what you find.

I agree 100% all diameter dimensions are smaller than what I would like to see but that is most likely due to lawyers wanting things to be just so, for liability problems these days. Most cartridges nor are made in the bottom half of the allowances. Combination of lawyers wanting things their way and the pockets to be filled not wanting to loose a penny due to a cartridge not "fitting" a chamber that was teamed with a reamer that should have been reground or replaced long before it was. Loads and load data have decreased by leaps and bounds for most cartridges for what I feel is the same reason.

[kfd518]

Well I switched powders on my load I went with power pro 2000 mr starting load of 60 gr and worked up to 63 gr at 2625 fps with SD of 12.5 fps. This was only a 3 shot group. I will load more of this load and see if the SD holds. Making progress now.