Brass pressure problems in Mauser build

[swheeler]

"Brass length 2.4925 hornady and reformed 270 is 2.4795"
That seems awfully short for the formed 270 brass even after firing in the Whelen chamber? When I form 35 Whelen from OF 270 brass, I use three steps 30-8mm-35 well lubed inside neck, the formed brass is right at 2.5 inches and needs trimmed to shorten and true up the face/ mouth, trim length is 2.484. Your load of 49.0 grs RL 15 sounds REAL light to me? I think all you are seeing are the remains of a factory crimp left on the mouth and nothing to worry about.

[vzerone]

swheeler's way of making 35 Whelen brass from other brass, especially 270, is most excellent and the way I'd do it.

[kfd518]

Hornady #1
Hornady #2
R-p 270 #1
R-P 270 #2
Swheeler I'm not sure about the forming of the previous 270 brass it was bought from another member here. The hornady factory 35 however has only a very slight roll crimp with no discernible lip to it like what a lee fcd or quite a bit of Winchester brass do. With the primers Being flat and that ring on the hornady plus 130-170+ fps above factory.... I am scratching my head.
I am attaching pictures of said fired cartridges.

Rp 270 charges as follows 00.) 52.0 gr 2,464 fps, 07.) 49.0 gr 2,347 fps, 06.) 49.5 gr 2,368 fps, 05.) 50.0 gr 2,349 fps, 04.) 50.5 gr 2,410 fps
The neck of 00 is noticably cleaner than the neck of 04 which does help to indicate a possible low pressure round for some reason but it has much higher velocity.
The primers of 00 and 05 are noticably deeper in the pocket but 05 indicates a much lower velocity according to the chronograph.

The load data that Alliant currently publishes for reloader 15 in 35 whelen with hotcor 250 is 54 gr max charge. Downloaded by 10% comes to 48.6 gr charge.

[vzerone]

kfd518, most of your primers looks okay to me, except for them not being flush with the case head. Primers are not a great way to judge pressure. With that said if the primer still has a rounded corner, that's good by me. I want to question you to on some of the primers there seems to be a couple of raises lumps for lack of better description. As though there are pits in the bolt face. What are those from?

[kfd518]

kfd518, most of your primers looks okay to me, except for them not being flush with the case head. Primers are not a great way to judge pressure. With that said if the primer still has a rounded corner, that's good by me. I want to question you to on some of the primers there seems to be a couple of raises lumps for lack of better description. As though there are pits in the bolt face. What are those from?

Exactly as you figured as noted in the photo about 4 and 6 o'clock

So you figure that even the hornady primers look alright to you?

[vzerone]

Exactly as you figured as noted in the photo about 4 and 6 o'clock

So you figure that even the hornady primers look alright to you?

Well that explains it, thanks for posting that.

[kfd518]

http://saami.org/specifications_and_...tion/index.cfm

The ring will be from a miss-ground or damaged reamer. Contact the rental company and have them send you a free usage replacement. Normally I have all my reamers custom ground in carbide with oil groove bushing. When I need an a one use reamer I order HSS and use it once and sell on ebay. Not really anymore hassle and normally more cost effective.

I missed this while reading replies yesterday in between calls. This is exactly my fear honestly!

[kfd518]

Alright, a few minutes with no toddlers at my feet and some time to measure and measure some more. Some time to look very closely at the hornady cases, and unfired cartridges without being able to measure that ring it feels that is indeed a crimp remnant by thumbnail gauge. I'm assuming at this point the protruding primers were low pressure charges. Alliant still stands firmly by their word that the new charge weight is plenty hot...... will run a new ladder load up and see how it goes next time at the range. Just trying to figure out why those hornady rounds are running so hot. Velocity doesn't come free and I would like to know where it is coming from! I surely tried to make a tight chamber but dang that's a bit excessive.
This is resized and blacked out to show off once fire hornady 35 whelen brass.

[vzerone]

kfd518 I'm going to give you some reloading data links for that 250 grain bullet using RL 15. Just look and don't try these especially since Alliant told you your load was hot. Again just view and don't try them. According to the data your load is low.

http://loadswap.com/display.php?acti...artridge_id=13

http://www.reloadersnest.com/detail....0&LoadID=10151

http://www.reloadammo.com/35whelenload.htm

http://stevespages.com/358_2_250.html

For your information RL-15 burn rate is similar to IMR 4064. Now that's in a close bomb burn rate test. Powders burn differently in different shape cartridges, different calibers, different weight bullets, and different barrels.

[vzerone]

I want to ask you if you know what the bore and groove dimensions are of your barrel? What brand barrel do you have?

[vzerone]

Here's a website for you http://35cal.com/

[kfd518]

kfd518 I'm going to give you some reloading data links for that 250 grain bullet using RL 15. Just look and don't try these especially since Alliant told you your load was hot. Again just view and don't try them. According to the data your load is low.

http://loadswap.com/display.php?acti...artridge_id=13

http://www.reloadersnest.com/detail....0&LoadID=10151

http://www.reloadammo.com/35whelenload.htm

http://stevespages.com/358_2_250.html

For your information RL-15 burn rate is similar to IMR 4064. Now that's in a close bomb burn rate test. Powders burn differently in different shape cartridges, different calibers, different weight bullets, and different barrels.

I had seen the 3 loads at reloaders bench and steves pages. Won't let me see load swap info. I hadn't seen the reloadammo info due to it not listing rl15

I originally had my ladder set up from 52.5 gr to 57 gr since most info I had read stated 57-59 gr 2500-2600+ a few. I re did my ladder at 49-54 gr after speaking with Alliant even though their data says only 2300 or so fps with that max load.

I have read many times that any rifle should handle 57 gr in that load but most of those post were before or shortly after Alliant had changed their data. Same as the ages of most of the loads you have listed.
I have thoroughly read his research on .35cal, that page is mostly why I went w the hotcor plus the price. I recall one forum hammering him due to his old notes and he subsequently went in and did some educating. I can't find the link now. If I find it later I will edit this post to add it. It was a very interesting thread though.

I will get dimensions tomorrow I'm heading to bed now. It is a midway green mountain 24" barrel though.

[tomme boy]

That brass looks stretched in the second and 4th pics. See the ring. Are you sure your chamber is straight and not wallowed out on one side? Did you hand ream it?

[swheeler]

I'd say working up from the 52 gr load you fired will be fine, the primers will re-seat when you create enough pressure. I would say that the firing pin blow isn't moving the shoulder back, but instead the force of the primer gases acting against the primer pocket is what causes it, the reason some drill the flasholes larger for low pressure rimless loads. my.02

[kfd518]

That brass looks stretched in the second and 4th pics. See the ring. Are you sure your chamber is straight and not wallowed out on one side? Did you hand ream it?

I did hand ream the chamber and measuring the cases they appear to be .4680-.4685 resized cases at same spot are .4660. It is possible I got some side play I attempted to keep as straight as I could.

I'd say working up from the 52 gr load you fired will be fine, the primers will re-seat when you create enough pressure. I would say that the firing pin blow isn't moving the shoulder back, but instead the force of the primer gases acting against the primer pocket is what causes it, the reason some drill the flasholes larger for low pressure rimless loads. my.02

Thank you kindly for the insight.

[kfd518]

I want to ask you if you know what the bore and groove dimensions are of your barrel? What brand barrel do you have?

Bore and groove .3505, .3590 midway green mountain f34 contour 1-14 twist

[swheeler]

Let us know how you come along with this project please, thanks.

[vzerone]

You look okay on those bore dimension and as we discussed a tad large on the groove. You shouldn't get any pressure problems because of that bore/groove.

[kfd518]

You look okay on those bore dimension and as we discussed a tad large on the groove. You shouldn't get any pressure problems because of that bore/groove.

Hornady rep just said.... sounds like you've got a fast barrel. Guess we will see.

Let us know how you come along with this project please, thanks.

I most certainly plan on it, I am pretty sure what you said about primer gas pressure being the case.

[The Lord Flashheart]

I'm thinking your case mouth is catching at the end of the chamber.

This----^

High pressure is evidenced by the speed the load chronographed at and the neck of the cartridge is coned in as if it had formed against the leade. As the go/no go gauges have no case neck, they wouldn't have picked this up. Perhaps the reamer was of the sort that needs following up with a throating reamer to machine truly custom chambers?

Out of curiosity, what does the neck of a loaded hornady round measure?