Low velocity round ball

[megasupermagnum]

I've been busy punishing myself with these 770 grain slugs, and hopefully I can have some real numbers up later on the results.

This week I have a special project, a bit of a contradictory. I want to load a full bore round ball (about 1 3/8 oz), but keep recoil down. As low velocity as possible is good, 800-1000 fps is the goal. No load data exists for low recoil 1 3/8 oz loads, for good reason. I'm considering using a faster powder, like universal, but I'm hoping to get away with a reduced load of either hs-6 or 800x. I'm leaning to hs-6, which seems to have limited 1 3/8 oz data, and hopefully will still have adequate pressure to reduce to the levels I want. Has anyone else tried to download to subsonic levels like this?

[Mr_Sheesh]

It'd help to know in what cartridge / if it's BP or whatever but I'd bet it's been done; That's a big lead round ball, 1-3/8 oz is about 600 grains so over 0.690" (which'd be 480 grains or so)

[megasupermagnum]

It is 12 gauge, smokeless only. The reason is that a standard load is uncontrollable in the gun I'm loading this for. I could go to a smaller slug, but I'd rather run low velocity with a full bore diameter slug. The gun is an H&R tracker (rifled barrel, slug gun single shot), which weighs about 5.25 pounds. The balls are .735", and run around 580 ish grains, but I just call it 1 3/8 oz.

[JonB1]

HI,

Just a thought, I've been experimenting with full-bore (or near full-bore) balls using small steel ball bearings and also glass beads as "fillers". The balls stay the same size but weigh a fair bit less, making them suitable for lighter loads. The balance of the ball does change as the fillers tend to float when they're cast.

[Finster101]

Try this thread, http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...Subsonic-Loads .

[725]

Just a little related info for you to consider: I load for my H&R ultra (10ga. frame with a heavy, rifled, cylinder barrel). Had Jeff Tanner cut a single cavity mold for a .702 round ball. With that 511 grain pure lead ball, I use 33 grains of Blue Dot in a CH123 hull. I load a Claybuster 12S3 wad with a 1/4" 20 ga. cork wad under the ball. I have to trim the unused hull to 2.775, push the load down onto the powder and then use a fold crimp. This assembly won't drop into your (my) chamber. I have to thumb them in to close the action. If I were to do it again, I'd probably ask for a .700 mold. Any load attempt greater than 33 grains of Blue Dot damaged the wad. For my shotgun, 33 grains was just right. Again, this is in a cylinder bore. I'd never use anything but the cylinder bore with this load.

Shot a few this weekend to zero the gun for the season and had about a 3" group at 100 yards. Good enough for my purposes. Couple of deer last year fell to one shot, DRT. Recoil is very manageable even throwing such a heavy ball. Have not chrony'd the load.

[megasupermagnum]

This is not for my ultra slug hunter. I'm shooting those giant 770 grain slugs in that. The Tracker only weighs 5.25 pounds, even a target load kicks good in it. All I want to do is shoot a 580 grain slug 800-1000 fps. It looks to me that HS-6 would be a blooper before I get below 1000 fps. Looking now, the Hodgdon website lists a 1 1/4 oz load with the exact components I want to use, and uses Universal powder. 23.3 grains at 10,400 psi and 1,220 fps. I'm thinking i should be able to down load this to 1000 fps.

[longbow]

Easiest answer is likely BP or a sub though they would be dirty. Those would be easy to get the velocity you want without worrying about bloopers. BP cartridge loading data could be used as a basis.

Second best (I think) is Unique. Ross Seyfried loaded 21.5 grs. of Unique under his 740 gr. Paradox slugs in his bore gun and achieved velocities of around 1000/1100 FPS. I'd have to look up the article to be sure but pretty low velocities. Unique seems to be very tolerant in light loading even with heavy projectiles. Not sure but I think the faster powders might be trickier to load for especially if there is little to no load data... unless you have pressure testing equipment. And slow powders present the risk of bloopers if pressure gets too low.

I'll take a look and see if I have any data for low velocity heavy payloads. I did look up some subsonic info but I don't recall a payload as heavy as 1 3/8 oz.

If I find anything useful I post it.

Longbow

[megasupermagnum]

Thanks for that, I've heard about using unique before. I have no pressure equipment. I have a feeling I could safely get 800 fps with something fast like 700x, but I'm not going to risk it. I feel good about unique.

[longbow]

There's lots of Unique load data for 1 oz to 1 1/8 oz slugs and mid range shot loads but you don't tend to see it listed for anything 1 1/4 oz. or heavier except for some of the old Paradox load info.

Like I said Ross Seyfried used it under his heavy Paradox slugs and I believe I have a load or two listed for bore guns using Unique as well.

There are Likely other powders as good but I am familiar with Unique and trust it. I've used it for light to heavy loads in .44 mag (though the "heavy" loads aren't in the same category as the slower powders), light loads in .303 under 200 gr. boolits, birdshot and slug loads in 12 ga. (though nothing as heavy as 1 3/8 oz). I downloaded 1 1/8 oz. birdshot loads using Unique so my 10 year old son could shoot a 12 ga. for grouse hunting and no problems. I didn't chronograph but they were pretty light loads with no issues and good patterns.

I'll see if I can find that Ross Seyfried article which I have as a hard copy and I have to reload my back up files on the PC as I am sure I have a similar listing from another source for heavy bore gun boolits/balls.

Longbow

[megasupermagnum]

I managed to dig this thread up, but those pressures seem way too low for what those are. Especially the bluedot. I just shot 34 grains of Bluedot behind those 770 slug (which weigh 786 grains with 20:1 alloy), and they are certainly not 6000 psi. I forgot my chronograph last time, but they are stout. Funny how they list Clays. Maybe 700x wouldn't be a bad choice after all? Tomorrow I'll hopefully be picking up some Unique, and loading. I'll probably start at 16 grains and go up a grain at a time. I'm using Federal 209A primers, and with a very deep fold crimp I will hopefully avoid a blooper, but not a big deal in a single shot. I'm thinking 18-20 grains will be the sweet spot. During searching it does seem Unique is rather tolerant of low pressures.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/arch.../t-184815.html

[longbow]

Hah! I believe the info that Carl posted is the info I was referring to and I read it here! I am pretty sure I copied the same or very similar info from Nitroexpress.com or doublegunshop.com too.

I dug up the Ross Seyfried article "Holland & Holland Paradox, A Reloading Miracle". He used a 750 gr. Paradox boolit over 21.5 grs. of Unique, 1 x 0.135" card, 2 x 1/4" felt wads producing around 1000 FPS.

Bear in mind that this was in a Paradox gun with mostly smooth bore and slip fit of boolit so little barrel friction.

Yeah... I loaded 0.735" RB's over 36 grs. of Blue Dot and they were hardly light loads. While the load data I was using went to .44 grs. Blue Dot for a 610 gr. slug I stopped at 38 grs. under a 585 gr. round ball because recoil was stout to say the least. I'd want a heavy gun with bull barrel and a thick recoil pad if I was to try 44 grs. under a 610 gr. slug!

Watch with the Federal 209A's as they are "hot" primers. I doubt you will get a blooper with Unique. I had a couple of "foosh!" loads with Blue Dot and relatively light slugs with moderate loads of powder. I think there was not enough pressure for proper burn. Most of the rounds shot pretty well but lots of unburned powder left in the bore.

All this slug talk has got me itching to get to the range. It has been a while but I am getting closer. I'm making a sizer so I can knurl up then size back to bore diameter to see if that helps accuracy. My home made mould casts about 0.001" under bore diameter like the Paradox boolits. They shoot okay but I want to compare at different size.

Longbow

[megasupermagnum]

Yeah, Bluedot is not a dink around powder, it loves pressure and payload. It is my favorite powder by far. I have loaded those round ball slugs. My MEC was having a real hard time getting a fold crimp. I finally got it with an overshot card, and I've loaded 16-22 grains. I'll probably shoot them Saturday. With the Federal 209A, and a .090" deep crimp, they should do well. I loaded in FGM hulls, and the wadding is a Federal 12S4 with petals cut off, 2 nitro cards, and a BPGS (recommendation from this forum) to hold the ball well.

[longbow]

My best results with full bore round ball came with using an over the powder plastic gas seal, a 1/2" hard card wad then a couple of 1/8" nitro card wads. I tried cushion legs with petals cut off, fiber wads under the ball and a couple of combinations but the solid wad column did best for me using Blue Dot.

I concur with your Blue Dot results and enthusiasm. I've heard criticisms of Blue Dot being hard to ignite in the cold but so far I've had no trouble and it is my favourite powder for slugs/balls but... I'm running out and there is no more local supply.

Longbow

[prs]

BPI publishes roll and fold crimp for the approx 1 1/4oz full bore balls. Their loads appear to be in the 1200fps area using PB, Universal, and such. I would stay away from the really fast 700X or quicker, but would consider Green Dot or Unique for light loads to work down to 800fps range. Roll crimp seems to give slightly lower velocity and pressure, yet good ignition.

prs

[megasupermagnum]

Thanks a lot guys, Unique works great. Even at 16 grains, it burned nice and clean. I settled on 18 grains, which provides the best accuracy, and recoil is not bad at all, even in the light gun. Velocity at 18 grains is 950 fps at 8' (just under 1000 fps muzzle velocity). Accuracy was not phenomenal, but more than good enough for the job. 2.75" at 50 yards.

[megasupermagnum]

Just a follow up, I tried them in both my ultra slug hunter and mossberg 500 (smooth bore with rifle sights). The USH shoots about the same as the H&R tracker. I managed a 2.5" 4 shot group at 50 yards. The Tracker shoots about 3", but has open sights. The Mossberg actually shoots them quite well considering its a smooth bore. 4 shots were right at 3", but a 5th was a flyer, opening it up to about 5". Maybe me, maybe bad luck. Either way, these are adequate at 50 yards, and are soft shooting. They cast super easy too.

[Blood Trail]

Longbow,

I'm gonna have to smuggle you some blue dot. I too love some BD, but so far, 800X has been the most consistant powder I use, with Steel not far behind. I really like the velocity I get out of Steel and 800X.

[Mr_Sheesh]

Hmmm how much does powder smuggling pay?

[longbow]

I haven't looked recently but last time I asked there had been no "Dot" powders available for some time here and little else including 800X. I did pick up a couple of lbs. of Unique and IIRC that cleaned them out out Unique.

I like the way you think though!

I should check and see what else may be in. Locally guys in the gun club get together and buy a bunch to minimize the HAZMAT fee and order direct from a powder distributor back East. I am not out of powder yet but I am almost out of Blue Dot and running low on SR4756... but having said that I have been shooting so little lately its lasting.

The bigger cities might have better selection but certainly not here.

Now should you show up at my door with a keg of the good stuff we'll have to discuss the "smuggler's pay".

Thanks for thinking of me!

Longbow