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Thread: '91 Argentine production dates

  1. #21
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    vzerone, who made yours? If it was Loewe you're good as they were reformed into DWM in 1896.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master vzerone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moleman- View Post
    vzerone, who made yours? If it was Loewe you're good as they were reformed into DWM in 1896.
    Mines a Lowe

  3. #23
    Boolit Master Moleman-'s Avatar
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    Mine had been sporterized long before I got it. Since I couldn't use it in the DNR zone I'm currently in since it was chambered for a bottleneck cartridge, I made an octagon barrel for it in 44x1.8".
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #24
    Boolit Master vzerone's Avatar
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    Very nice looking rifle.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by vzerone View Post
    According to the chart I found and posted mines an 1892.
    You said s/n is C08xx yes? And its a carbine, yes?


    M1891 DWM
    (rifles) (carbines)
    1899.........O5000-T7999........B5000-C5999 <------ yours fits in here.

    Dutch

  6. #26
    Boolit Master vzerone's Avatar
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    Dutch, Dutch, Dutch, what am I missing. My carbine is a LOEWE not a DWM!

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    If I'm reading it right yours has a long rifle, not carbine, Loewe serial number?
    Hell, I was there!

  8. #28
    Boolit Master vzerone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swheeler View Post
    If I'm reading it right yours has a long rifle, not carbine, Loewe serial number?
    According to the chart I posted yes. My carbine is the Engineer carbine meaning it has the bayonet attachment bands. It's a definite 100 percent carbine not a cut down rifle. Also clearly marked Loewe on left side of the receiver. In doing more research there is a debate over when Loewe became DWM did they move their factory or did they just change the name out front? Some think that when it became DWM that DWM used up the existing Loewe receivers to finish them off before manufacturing new receiver with their DWM trademark. German and Belgium records were pretty much destroyed in WWII, but Argentina's records were not. There is talk to that all rifles and carbines made by DWM are not antiques.

    I can see by the chart that my carbine is confusing.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    If only Ludvig Lova was alive to tell you! I knew a guy who used to post here had one just like that, your bore just like new?
    Last edited by swheeler; 11-09-2017 at 03:17 PM.
    Hell, I was there!

  10. #30
    Boolit Master vzerone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swheeler View Post
    If only Ludvig Lova was alive to tell you! I knew a guy who used to post here had one just like that, your bore just like new?
    Scott right?, well you know all the 91's and 1909's I have looked at the bores are different between the two. The 91 bore is a mirror and the groove is .313. The 1909 bore, which was new, is .311 and the rifling appears (grooves actually) appear deeper. What's your take on it. Like I said the carbine is mint and all matching including the bayonet bands, magazine, and bolt of course with 90 some percent finish. Crest and lettering is sharp. I actually prefer the Cavalry carbine because it doesn't have the ugly bans on it. Oh, you know who I weaseled it out of!

  11. #31
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by vzerone View Post
    According to the chart I posted yes. My carbine is the Engineer carbine meaning it has the bayonet attachment bands. It's a definite 100 percent carbine not a cut down rifle. Also clearly marked Loewe on left side of the receiver. In doing more research there is a debate over when Loewe became DWM did they move their factory or did they just change the name out front? Some think that when it became DWM that DWM used up the existing Loewe receivers to finish them off before manufacturing new receiver with their DWM trademark. German and Belgium records were pretty much destroyed in WWII, but Argentina's records were not. There is talk to that all rifles and carbines made by DWM are not antiques.

    I can see by the chart that my carbine is confusing.

    Pictures. That's what we need. Both sides of the receiver and a couple showing overall the entire carbine. Ain't no way around it we need pictures.

    I have the Webster book on Argentine Mausers. Sucker cost $80 and has an IMMENSE amount of information including production dates by mfg et al. Forget about the bayonet issue as it has nothing to do with this. We need pictures.

    We have a lot of information about Ludwig Loewe and DWM by virtue of the 1893 South African models and 1895 Chilean models. 1896 was the last year for Loewe-marked production, so sayeth the Webster book which is based on Argentina gov't records. Forget what the internet experts say or argue about. If it isn't in Webster's book it didn't happen.

    You get pictures and I'll review (read) the entire section in Webster's book on carbines. That's a lot of reading!

    Dutch

  12. #32
    Boolit Master vzerone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchman View Post
    Pictures. That's what we need. Both sides of the receiver and a couple showing overall the entire carbine. Ain't no way around it we need pictures.

    I have the Webster book on Argentine Mausers. Sucker cost $80 and has an IMMENSE amount of information including production dates by mfg et al. Forget about the bayonet issue as it has nothing to do with this. We need pictures.

    We have a lot of information about Ludwig Loewe and DWM by virtue of the 1893 South African models and 1895 Chilean models. 1896 was the last year for Loewe-marked production, so sayeth the Webster book which is based on Argentina gov't records. Forget what the internet experts say or argue about. If it isn't in Webster's book it didn't happen.

    You get pictures and I'll review (read) the entire section in Webster's book on carbines. That's a lot of reading!

    Dutch
    I will do that so give me some time. I appreciate it.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master

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    Serial number of this 1891 Argentine carbine is A9715 made in 1895 by Ludwig Loewe.
    There were 5,000 made that year with numbers A5000 to A9999.







    1891 rifle serial number C0231 made in 1892 by Ludwig Loewe.
    There were 25,000 rifles made that year with numbers A0000 to C4999.








  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    Yep, I think we need to see a couple pictures of it!
    Hell, I was there!

  15. #35
    Boolit Master


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    Interesting information. Two of my M91s are Loewes and three are DWMs. The M91 Rifle and M1909 are both in very good to excellent conditions with perfect bores....both are great cast bullet shooters also. The other three were commercial "sporterized". One of the Loewes has been rebarreled to 35 Remington. The other Loewe was converted to a scout configuration and the DWM was D&T'd for a receiver sight as the front sight ramp was already there.

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    According the chart;
    The DWM M1909 was made in 1912

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    The DWM M91 Rifle was made in 1899

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    The DWM M91 "sporter" was made in 1899 also

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    The Loewe M91 "scout" was made in 1894

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    The Loewe M91 35 Remington was made in 1894

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    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  16. #36
    Boolit Master vzerone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swheeler View Post
    Yep, I think we need to see a couple pictures of it!
    The issue has been resolved Capt Morgan. It involved two rifles actually and Dutch and I figured it out by pm's. Dutch knows this stuff better then good. So go have a couple of beers on me. they're healthy for ya!!

  17. #37
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by vzerone View Post
    The issue has been resolved Capt Morgan. It involved two rifles actually and Dutch and I figured it out by pm's. Dutch knows this stuff better then good. So go have a couple of beers on me. they're healthy for ya!!
    What's this Capt Morgan stuff? personal attack< hum.

    The top Loewe was sporterized when I got it, 1893(by that I mean the fore stock and barrel were sawed off, I D&T, welded on RCE bolt handle and jeweled bolt)
    the full length rifle shows 1892, first year production if not mistaken
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    Last edited by swheeler; 11-18-2017 at 07:53 PM.
    Hell, I was there!

  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    It looks like my 1909 is a 1910 manufacture, it's a 35 Whelen now
    Hell, I was there!

  19. #39
    Boolit Master

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    I've only got the one lonely 1891 but, according to the info posted by vzerone, with ser # W 09xx it is a 1901 DWM mfg. I would like to have a 1909 but every time I have the cash, something else comes along that I'm sure will never be available again. LOL

    That is a beautiful rifle that the Dutchman posted. I still remember all the ads for surplus rifles back in the late 50's and early 60's. I was in high school and college then. After graduation I completely got away from guns, got married, raised a family and now that time is short, I have to be very discerning and think about who will inherit these guns or will they sell(auction) them for 10˘ on the dollar.
    John
    W.TN

  20. #40
    Boolit Master vzerone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamogunr View Post
    I've only got the one lonely 1891 but, according to the info posted by vzerone, with ser # W 09xx it is a 1901 DWM mfg. I would like to have a 1909 but every time I have the cash, something else comes along that I'm sure will never be available again. LOL

    That is a beautiful rifle that the Dutchman posted. I still remember all the ads for surplus rifles back in the late 50's and early 60's. I was in high school and college then. After graduation I completely got away from guns, got married, raised a family and now that time is short, I have to be very discerning and think about who will inherit these guns or will they sell(auction) them for 10˘ on the dollar.
    I have to give Dutchman the credit. I can't think of anyone that knows more about Swedes and Argentines, and a whole bunch of others. I had found that chart on another forum and it's very possible Dutch may have been the one they got it from.

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