6.0gr of Trail Boss in .45 Colt??

[Froogal]

I have used TrailBoss in .45 Colt, 200 grain, .452 diameter. Pretty sure I used 6 grains, and that was right out of the LEE 2nd addition reloading manual. The TrailBoss did a fine job, but 8.5 grains of Unique seemed more to my liking. If I run out of Unique, I will not hesitate to use TrailBoss.

[1006]

For the new reloader: it is easiest to just use the 5.8 grain load and see how it shoots for you. Load a few and test them out. Your father may have taken a lot of things into consideration that you will just have to experience yourself in order to arrive at the same conclusion. Your brass, dies, primer, and crimp may all be slightly different.

[00buck]

It was still good reading

[Groo]

Groo here
We use Trailboss in 44 mag,44 spec and 41mag.
The two biggest things we found were #1 use a "Heavy " crimp and #2 use a hotter primer.[like Win or Mags]
You want the powder to push the boolet from the case m not the primer ..
And you want to get a good fire going, [there is a lot of air space in there to heat up.

[Idaho45guy]

Yep, three years later and that load is still working well.

The wisdom and knowledge so kindly bestowed upon me in the first page of this thread is a prime example of why this site is invaluable for inexperienced reloaders.

[Froogal]

Old thread or not, if it comes to the surface, it is because someone else, maybe a new member, is interested.

[cwlongshot]

the original colt loads were/are quite mild...less than 14k psi.

Even a "colt clone" is every bit as strong as a "colt" quite because colt took advantage of having the basic pieces manufactured in italy by uberti, then shipped to it's factory for final fit and finishing...so don't kid yourself, modern "globalism" at it's very best! The reason i know this to be fact is that i've had opportunity over the last six decades to compare certain details between "authentic" colts and italian reproductions....regardless of what's stamped on the barrel, once "inside" it's obvious the lineage.

In any case, i happen to own no less than three uberti cattleman black powder revolvers that i converted to .45 colt in such a way that one cannot tell they started out life as ".44 bp" revolvers. I've fired these "colt clone, bp only" guns using heavy charges that pushed 255 grain lswc slugs to 900fps from 4.75" barrels...and they have handled it for over over 20 years of regular shooting. I've also loaded them with the heaviest bp "substitute" i could compress into the case with a 255gr. Slug squeezed down on it and they handled that just fine. I can tell you for sure and for certain that 36 grains of bp substitute compressed into a modern, solid-head .45 colt case is quite a load!

Anyway, original .45 colt loads were based on "balloon head" cases where copper tubing was formed in dies into a finished case, and the "web" area as we now know it, was no thicker than the rest of the brass case walls. These cases could not handle much pressure at all. Sometime after the beginning of the 20th century, all cartridge cases began to be swaged from thicker sections that resulted in finished cases with very thick sections capable of withstanding very high pressures. The "warnings" about loading .45 colt to higher pressures is because someone just might come across an original "folded head" case and blow a gun up...typical liability issues.

Modern, solid-head brass for the .45 colt will handle every bit as much pressure as modern .44 magnum brass, even though, the larger bore .45 colt can match .44 magnum loads at pressures below 30k psi.

Finally, load data from years ago tends to be higher than that of today thanks to liability issues. A difference of 0.2 gr. In a huge case like the .45 colt as standard loads is inconsequential.

^^^^^ this^^^^^^

[bigted]

I'd guess that few have loaded or attempted to load the original Colt load.

I load RP, Win and Starline cases in 45 Colt and have not had trouble compressing real black powder in 40 grain doses into these cases.

I would recomend trying these original 40 grain loads of 3F real black powder to recognize why the old Colt round was king rite up to the 357 Mag coming on the scene. Then you could see some magnum recoil and gouts of smoke n sparks resulting from yankin the trigger on these rounds.

Also it is easy to discover why the military requested lower powder charges and liter bullets for the troops. The 36 grain load under the 230 grain bullet became the normal loading with 28 grain loads under very lite bullets for "gallery" loads being fun and inexpensive practice rounds.

Trail boss is a good 45 powder for cowboy like loads and my 8 pound cannister is getting low because it is very fun in several of my fun levers and revolvers ... have not got traction loading it in ACP cases as my unique and some other powders give great economy in the acp with great power.

Long winded way to say that in my opinion ... 6 grains under a 250ish grain boolit is perfectly safe in all but maybe the earliest Colt blackpowder frames from the earliest dates. These should be under glass anyway or fired with the liter BP loads. History will not make any more of these historic and dandy old revolvers so with so many modern revolvers available ... why use the old historic ones in every day life. They have put in their time ... let the younger ones have a chance to impress.

[smkummer]

Trail boss has its place for original large black powder cartridges and low velocity with its safety factor being that it’s hard to over charge. It’s big donut flakes seem to work well in progressive presses. So it’s a favorite of cowboy action shooters, of which it was intended. I have had good results with red dot, bullseye and 700X ( my favorite as it’s used in 12 gauge target loads) in my cowboy loads and it’s more economical than trail boss but it doesn’t have the safety factor of trail boss. I have observed some shooters going really light with trail boss and it still seems to work even though I can actually observe the 45 cal. bullets in flight to the short 10 yard target.

[kaiser]

I use Lee's 255gr cast over 5.8gr of Trail Boss for an average velocity of 720fps out of a .45Colt Beretta (Uberti) 7.5" SA revolver. It is both accurate and pleasant to shoot. I also use the 6.0gr load with a 230gr cast in Scoffield cases with the same results (don't remember the velocity). According to Hodgdon's literature, you can't overload Trail Boss if you follow their instructions. I don't think TB was designed to be compressed, but was designed to fill the case of cartridges used for "Cowboy shoots" without having to use "fillers" (corn meal or Kapok). It accomplishes this task beautifully!

[Idaho45guy]

As an aside, I suspect my dad is a bit of a rebel. He recently gave me one of his project rifles; a Pre-`64 Model 70 action with a Winchester XTR featherweight barrel converted to .30-06 Ackley Improved and set in an Al Biesen stock. He said it was his answer to the .300 WinMag and would push a 180gr bullet to over 3000fps.

He gave me a box of ammo for it and when I looked up the load data written on it, he was about 5 grains over max for the bullet and grain weight. I don't think I'll be replicating his loads for it as 2800 fps for a 180gr bullet for elk is just fine.

[Tripplebeards]

I just got off the phone with Hodgon. I had a great conversation with the gentleman who invented Trail Boss powder. He said when he was over in Australia testing it they had the hardest time trying to find a shape that would not curl up. Started with a figure 8, then a D shape. They ended up with the donut shape. He said they are working on another similar powder that’s a little slower burning. I originally called on some 23,000 psi loads for the new vaquero. I was told as usual not to load past 14,000 CUP because of the thinner cylinders and was provided zero data. I ended up calling back and talked to a different person on TB loadings again to get max TB data. The old TB powder directions it says to measure where the boolit seats and then measure my powder capacity. From there drop back 70% and start there and work my way up to where the boolit seats. Well...I load my lee 255 grain long at 1.650”...sometimes even a little longer. At 1.650” that gives me a max of 10.2 grains to where I would compress powder. I was told by Hodgon rep #2 that would take me up close to 20,000 to 23,000 CUP. I was told to stick with the 4.5 to 5.8 grain loads even though I seat my boolit out further... even though I was approx 50% case capacity vs 70% starting. After running my 5.2 grain load with a heavy crimp and a CCI MLP primer, my average velocity is only 575 FPS. It’s a fun shooting tac driver with this load. I can stack my boolits on top of each other at 25 yards with this load! If I load more powder my POA rises about a 1/2 a foot. But my loaded long load of 5.302 grains is slower than the 4.5 grain 606 FPS load listed on Hodgon load data website. I realize I am only shooting a 4 3/4” barrel vs the 7.5” test barrel as well so maybe it’s about even? The reps told me my 50% capacity is just fine because the powder burns so fast my boolit will still head north instead of the case blowing up and heading south, east, and west. I have read many times that my New Vaquero can handle up to 23,000 CUP loads. I would assume I could run my powder all the way to flush safely with out crushing powder? If so I’m sure it will make a hard smacking deer load. The gentleman that invented Hodgdon TB said he’s tried firsthand the 14,000 CUP loads on deer, bear, and elk and said that he would never shoot one again with the lower pressure loads on game unless it was at 10 yards or less He said the colt 45 just doesn’t have enough get up and go at 14,000 cup for hunting purposes. Since my loads are a little slower I’ll try a 6 grain load and maybe work up to 8.5 and see how it shoots and check velocities as I go. I know I tried up to 8.5 in it a few years back and it had pretty hefty recoil close to factory black hills ammo that was recommended by the LGS that sold us the pistol.

So just to repost...my colt 45 loaded at 1.650” with a lee 255 grain PC boolit along with 5.2 grains of trail boss and a CCI LMP primer, along with a heavy crimp, has an average velocity of 575 FPS out of my 4 3/4” New vaquero. Extremely accurate and fun to shoot.

Here’s a few of my loaded long ammo with approx 55% case capacity using 5.2 grains of trail boss and a magnum primer with and average velocity of 575fps.

[Chemoman]

im in the process of setting up my cold out side shop loading room into my sons bed room who is in college now and moved out of the house. i plan on useing triple 7 for the powder in my 45 long colt. 2 hard fiber wads and a over sized round ball with the end of the case roll crimped. hot mild recoil accurate load. the round ball is coated in lees bullet varnish.