Anybody using a .357 revolver for Whitetail... I need some help

[guywitha3006]

Ok so long story short my dad has been right handed and right eye dominate for all his life. A few years ago he had some very rapid onset glaucoma in his right eye. So now he shoots his rifle all sorts of goofy (left handed and left eyed). Being unable to use his right eye last year cost him a nice buck (so he claims...he couldn't get a good view for a shot). So this year I set up my 5" GP100 with a red dot for him to help. At the very farthest shot he would take would be 50 yards... my guess closer to 20-25. I have some HiTek coated Acme 158 LSWC to load up for him (I would have cast something with a little softer alloy than theirs but time is a premium these days). Now if life was simple I would load a stout charge of H110 that was acceptably accurate and be on my way...but it isn't. In addition to having the issue with his eye he has bad (already operated on and needing surgery again after the first of the year) carpal tunnel syndrome in both hands. So I am trying to get an idea how hot these need to be loaded to be effective. I am hoping I can find a node where he can shoot a few comfortably and also take a 140-200# deer (with good placement) effectively...If he sees one

Thanks for the help.

[dverna]

It is too bad about your dad. Whatever you decide to use, make sure he can hit a 6" target at 50 yards before trying to hunt. Under field conditions, group size about doubles. The deer deserve a chance at a humane kill. Not sure if a shotgun with buckshot is an option for him. At 50 yards or less they are very effective.

[guywitha3006]

Hey Dverna. Buckshot is not an option in WI. The reason I want to load it lower is so he can get extra range time (season is still a ways out). He does still take his .30-06 (with a red dot) the 357 would only be for a close in shot where he couldn't get his rifle around/ lined up. The thought with the .357 is he can shoot with his right hand dominant and still use his left eye. I'm thinking of loading in the 1200 FPS range, kind of a medium power load.

[Tom W.]

He can still shoot right hand dominant an left eye dominant. I've bee doing it for most of my life with handguns. I look kinda goofy ( I suppose, no one has ever said ) with my head laying on my right shoulder to get a decent shot with an iron sighted handgun. A red dot doesn't matter.....

[Larry Gibson]

You are to be commended helping your dad like this. That SWC at 1200 fps will do on deer (even the bigger Wisconsin deer) out to 50 yards but, of course, it must be placed accurately. Be ready to follow up as a DRT probably won't happen so have him practice to continue to shoot accurately as long as he has a shot.

[Uncle Jimbo]

You are to be commended helping your dad like this. That SWC at 1200 yds will do on deer (even the bigger Wisconsin deer) out to 50 yards but, of course, it must be placed accurately. Be ready to follow up as a DRT probably won't happen so have him practice to continue to shoot accurately as long as he has a shot.

I hope you mean 1200 FPT and not yards.

[runfiverun]

I don't think you even need the 1200 fps, but the harder alloy would sway me in that direction.
I would be more inclined to go with the Hornady XTP at about 1,000 fps.
simple, easy, get him to the range stuff.

oh if he feels bad about it remind him that Steve McQueen was right handed and left eye dominant and shot a handgun pretty well.

[Kosh75287]

I'D try 8.0/Herco/158gr. LSWC for the hunting load. For practice, try 7.2/Herco/158gr. LSWC for a practice. If that's too stout for your Dad's wrist(s) try 6.5/Herco/158gr. LSWC in a .38 Special case. DO NOT use that load in a revolver chambered for .38 Special only, however.

[guywitha3006]

Thanks for all the advice guys I appreciate it. His eye has been bad for a few years but it only been the last year or two dealing with the hands. I know all the memories I have from hunting with my grandpa as a kid and I want to make sure my two year old has the same chance to make memories with his grandpa. So I am busting trying to mitigate any potential excuses, lol.

I want to try and stick with cast though, I used a couple 180 grain xtps to finish off a medium doe a couple season back and the didn't expand much. Ideally I will find time to cast up and coat some from 1-16 to 1-20 alloy alloy then I would feel a lot better about slowing the velocity down. Runfiverun have you had good luck with 158 grain xtps by chance?

[sixshot]

I also shoot right handed & am left eye dominate but it hasn't caused me too much grief. Also that 357 will work just fine with correct bullet placement, just know your limits (your dads) and make it happen. And if you have doubts you can HP a few of your loads & see how they work. Good luck with your dad on his hunt.

Dick

[RMc]

There is another option: Locate a good late model top eject Winchester 94 and set it up with a side mount low power scope. This should provide sufficient scope offset to allow aiming with the left eye while shooting from the right shoulder. This solution worked for an older member of a hunting club I belonged to some years back.

Weaver, S&K and Williams sights make side mounts for these rifles.

[M-Tecs]

Offset mounts for his rifle are another option

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...ision-problem/

[jonp]

I shot a 180lb Whitetail at 35yrds using a .357 Mag 5in GP100 and 165gr Rem Core Lokt's. Broke the near shoulder and penetrated both lungs before stopping on the off side. Deer ran 20yrds or so and dropped.

This discontinued ammo was about 1300fps MV and 610 ME. Due to the performance I had I've always used those figures when loading my own and tried to get as close to them as possible.

IMHO with the pistol and 357Mag it's the shot placement that counts the most closely followed by distance. Care must be taken to get it right and marginal shots should be passed up. I waited until the deer stopped walking broadside. Unfortunately as I pulled the trigger it moved a little but the bullet did the job in spades. I set my max distance at 50yrds and I did not use a red dot, though. I replaced the front sight with a red fiber optic.

[guywitha3006]

Guys thanks for all the info I really appreciate it. I think his rifle setup will work for his primary gun, i think the 357 will be for any real close shots where he can't get it in his red dot scope of his rifle. Regular scope are a no go...when he couldn't see through his scope one year a few years ago that raised the alarm and had him get his eye looked at and got the glucoma diagnois.

Jonp thanks for the advice on the ammo. I may use that to go off of. Do you try and get 1300 fps based on the book numbers or from your gun with a chrono?

[kobeinu]

My Dad is coming up on some of the same issues. I'd never thought of handgun hunting until I read this. It just wasn't something we ever did. Shotguns only (by law) and then pistol caliber rifles as of a few years ago. I might give this a try too so that he doesn't have to lug the rifle around (new knees, 1 shoulder, both wrists and glocoma).

I have a really great load for a 185gn Beartooth Bullet at .3595 which is a cast/gas checked bullet that screams out of a rifle and hums out of a revolver. That bullet might be the ticket with 2400. The loads I mentioned were all h110 and are from the owner of Beartooth Bullets. Not something I'd want to see Dad shoot more than one of for sure.

[runfiverun]

I have used the XTP's for deer a number of times. [first 3 deer I shot in Idaho were with XTP's and lever guns, the last one was from the 41 mag Black hawk]
they have failed to open and seem to perform like my cast RNFP's when they don't.
when they do open they are even better.
the key is the velocity you use them in, I was running some of them on the edge of their window.
as soon as I added a touch more speed things come together, and they worked as intended.

I like 7grs. of Herco in the Lever gun with a 158 rnfp. [I keep a 3 gallon bucket full of them around]
in a revolver they are extremely loud and I choose another powder, 1 gr less bulls-eye is close but about 50 decibels quieter.

I think I would talk to your Dad about his preference.
I would rather shoot my little 92 in 357 left handed and one eye closed rather than try my luck with a revolver.
a red-dot would help but if my hands were any worse...

[guywitha3006]

Minuteshaver hodgdon uses a ten inch barrel in sure aquila is similar.

[Motor]

I don't think you should worry or even try to come up with something that is going to expand. Most 158gr JHP are made to expand on a human being and can be unreliable trying to penetrate through a whitetail shoulder.

I would definitely lean towards a flat nose hard cast boolit and rely on a good broad side bread basket pass through.

Motor

[jonp]

Guys thanks for all the info I really appreciate it. I think his rifle setup will work for his primary gun, i think the 357 will be for any real close shots where he can't get it in his red dot scope of his rifle. Regular scope are a no go...when he couldn't see through his scope one year a few years ago that raised the alarm and had him get his eye looked at and got the glucoma diagnois.

Jonp thanks for the advice on the ammo. I may use that to go off of. Do you try and get 1300 fps based on the book numbers or from your gun with a chrono?

Start with the book to try and get an idea and then chrono. When working up as long as I'm somewhat near the figures I posted accuracy is paramount. Hitting those figures is useless if the load prints all over kingdom come.

With reloads you will be hard pressed to hit 1300fps although it can be done. The ME can be reached at a lower velocity by playing with bullet weight/velocity. http://www.shooterscalculator.com/bu...tic-energy.php

For example: A Lyman #358311 pushed to book max of 1463fps using H110 (16.5gr) yields 751 ft lbs. well over the target I've set. I will then back off that to find an accurate loading still keeping the ME in mind.

When using, say, a Lyman 358477 (150 gr) you have to hit 1350fps to get 600ft lbs. Looking in the 4th Cast Bullet Handbook I see that only a few powders can get there safely. Blue Dot, Acc #7, 2400 and H110/N110. The lowest pressure at that point is H110 so I'll start with that one. H110 is usually my powder of choice with magnum loads anyways followed by 2400 and Unique.

I do not advocate that bullet for whitetail sized game. I think the heaviest you can use with a smaller caliber like .357 and which is accurate in your gun is the way to go remembering bullet style and if cast, hardness. I set 158gr as the min weight for me but that's just me. Others will differ. Also keep in mind that if using HP j-words, they are designed to properly function at a given velocity. Drop below that and they will not open as intended and are little better than a full metal jacket. Cast will flatten out at a lower velocity creating a bigger wound channel which is why lead is so good.

This long and rambling post is just my experience based on what performance I saw on an actual deer. You have to start somewhere so I decided that would be my starting point. Others with far more experience will differ and you should probably take their advice before mine.

[Ramjet-SS]

great thread it just happens I as testing som bullets from my Henry 357 rifle yesterday.

Nosler 158 Grain Jacketed flat point 16" or penetration in water soaked magazines. A great disruption of the material for the first 8" of wet news print the tapered down.

Barnes X 140 grain 22" of penetration great disruption of media for 12" tapered down at some point lost the HP pedals and the wad cutter continued to the 22" mark.

Cast from an Accurate Mould 158 grains plain base 18" penetration good disruption of the media for the first 7-8" then continued to the 18" mark.

It been my experience within the 50 yard range and with calm deer broadside or quartering away shot he will get his deer with that 357.

By the way you can take about 4"-6" of penetration from the above rifle figures for the handgun velocities.