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Thread: Question on Lee dies

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy tranders's Avatar
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    Question on Lee dies

    Just ordered 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R die sets from Lee. Both of which are the three die Pacesetter dies. Please explain to me why Lee gives two different expander balls(.308 and .310) with the 7.62x39 dies and only a .308 expander ball with the 7.62x54R dies? If anything I would think they would give the larger expander for the 54R with all the over bore Mosins.

    Thanks for the help!

  2. #2
    Boolit Master rondog's Avatar
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    You'd have to ask Lee. Seems I've read that most folks buy the expander ball for .303 British for their 7.62x54R dies. I have that die set but have never used it yet, because I haven't gotten around to getting that .303 expander. I have .303 dies, just don't want to swap that thing back and forth, although it's doable. I also rarely shoot my Mosins, and have tons of surplus ammo anyway.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by tranders View Post
    Just ordered 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R die sets from Lee. Both of which are the three die Pacesetter dies. Please explain to me why Lee gives two different expander balls(.308 and .310) with the 7.62x39 dies and only a .308 expander ball with the 7.62x54R dies? If anything I would think they would give the larger expander for the 54R with all the over bore Mosins.

    Thanks for the help!
    I don't know. I did order a 303 Brit expander for my 30-30 though. If your seater is built like mine, you can use the same top punch you size with as a seating plug.

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  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy tranders's Avatar
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    I ordered the Universal Expander die from Lee. Hopefully that will do the trick.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master MOA's Avatar
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    Depending on what firearm you are loading for the bore/groove diameter can be different. Most military rifles like the Russian SKS will have a groove of .311 where a Ruger ranch rifle chambered in the same cailber will most likely have a diameter of .308. As far as the 7.62x54R I do not know of any manufactures that make a bore diameter different that what the Russian round was initially spec'd at.

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy tranders's Avatar
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    I am loading for a Russian SKS and a 1942 Tula Mosin. I didn't think about the Ranch Rifles being a different bore diameter.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by tranders View Post
    I ordered the Universal Expander die from Lee. Hopefully that will do the trick.
    No, it only flares the case mouth.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy tranders's Avatar
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    Question on Lee dies

    Would I be better off getting the expander for the 303 or does Lyman make an M die for this Caliber?


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  9. #9
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    You would need to slug your barrel to know which expander ball to use with each firearm.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master MOA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tranders View Post
    Would I be better off getting the expander for the 303 or does Lyman make an M die for this Caliber?


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    Wiki shows bullet dia .312

    Parent case 8×52mmR Mannlicher
    Case type Rimmed, Bottleneck
    Bullet diameter 7.92 mm (0.312 in)
    Neck diameter 8.53 mm (0.336 in)
    Shoulder diameter 11.61 mm (0.457 in)
    Base diameter 12.37 mm (0.487 in)
    Rim diameter 14.40 mm (0.567 in)
    Rim thickness 1.6 mm (0.063 in)
    Case length 53.72 mm (2.115 in)
    Overall length 77.16 mm (3.038 in)
    Case capacity 4.16 cm3 (64.2 gr H2O)
    Rifling twist 240 mm (1 in 9.45 in)
    Primer type Berdan or Boxer Large Rifle
    Maximum pressure 390.00 MPa (56,565 psi)

  11. #11
    Boolit Master MOA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tranders View Post
    Would I be better off getting the expander for the 303 or does Lyman make an M die for this Caliber?


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    Contact Lyman to see if their M die is still available for this caliber. I cannot locate it on their website as a order online item, but that does not mean that it is not available anymore. I use their M 1 C 91 for my SKS, but I got mine years ago, and their M die for most all of my other boolit handloads too. I like their M die.

    I see no reason why this M die will not work for your rifle application as well if you can get it from Lyman, and I would ask them about it while you have them on the phone as you inquire about the SKS M die.

    Here is a link to a very good article written about loading SKS with cast boolits and I think it is one that should be read by anyone who is thinking about casting and loading for this fine carbine.

    This is also another great cast forum I joined years ago and read almost on a daily basis also.

    http://castbulletassoc.org/blog/arti...use-in-the-sks






  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy tranders's Avatar
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    Fantastic information! Thank you MOA

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Lee provides both expanders because some rifle makers, like Ruger, chambered there 7.62x39 rifles in a .308 barrel instead of .311.

    Many smiths have rebarreled rifles to 7.62x39 and used .308 blanks as well mostly because finding .311 blanks is tough.

    As far as the 7.62 x 54R is concerned I have no ideas as I've never had a rifle in that caliber! I suspect there was enough surplus ammo at one time that most shooters didn't reload or didn't cast for the caliber so Lee had no need to add a second expander bad to the die set.

    HM

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyMetal View Post
    Lee provides both expanders because some rifle makers, like Ruger, chambered there 7.62x39 rifles in a .308 barrel instead of .311.

    Many smiths have rebarreled rifles to 7.62x39 and used .308 blanks as well mostly because finding .311 blanks is tough.

    As far as the 7.62 x 54R is concerned I have no ideas as I've never had a rifle in that caliber! I suspect there was enough surplus ammo at one time that most shooters didn't reload or didn't cast for the caliber so Lee had no need to add a second expander bad to the die set.

    HM
    I was going to add the same thought. My SKS slugs out at .312" and my Mosin is right around .309"... But it's been a while and I haven't done any casting for the SKS. I have cast and PCed for my Garand and Mosin and used the same bullet in both.
    My Anchor is holding fast!

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy tranders's Avatar
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    Is your rifle a Finnish Mosin?


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    Fire a military surplus 7.62x39 in a .308 barrel and you will have to beat the bolt open with a hammer.
    Ken

  17. #17
    Boolit Master MOA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pressman View Post
    Fire a military surplus 7.62x39 in a .308 barrel and you will have to beat the bolt open with a hammer.
    Ken
    Yes, you can get away with a .308 down the tube of the .311 but not the other way around.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master MOA's Avatar
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    As an aside, the second most important thing about handloading a sks is the importance of using a military spec primer on military arms to avoid slam fires. Lots of reloaders for this round unless they read lots of manuals might miss the importance of the primer in this specific cartridge when used in a military firearm.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    MOA, thank you for the SKS info and link. Reloading for my Russian is in the near future. I also enjoy the reading and history.

    Tranders, I'm following your experience with this so I can avoid the same problems. Good luck with yours and be safe.

    Mike

  20. #20
    Boolit Master 44magLeo's Avatar
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    When I bought my 7.62x54R dies It didn't come with both expanders. I ordered the 303 expander to go with it.
    Most 7.62x54r's use the larger bore. The Finnish rebuilt rifles used the 308 bore.
    For jacketed bullets I suppose you can get away with the 308 expander but for cast the bigger expander is needed to help prevent bullet damage.
    I like the larger expander when loading the .311 or .312 jacketed bullets I have.
    I suppose the 7.62x39 being a more popular cartridge they include both expanders.
    A lot more rifles are x39 then x54r.
    Leo

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check