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Thread: Soft shooting fast powder for heavy bullets in 9mm 147gr-158gr

  1. #1
    Boolit Man MAGA's Avatar
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    Soft shooting fast powder for heavy bullets in 9mm 147gr-158gr

    Titegroup was my go to powder for years with 147gr plated bullets in 9mm. I started casting and coating my own bullets in HI-Tek and Titegroup just doesn't work well with cast. I was getting leading and smoke that i didn't get with slower powders like Unique and True Blue.

    I am using the 358-155-TC ELCO bullet from NOE

    I am looking for a fast powder like titegroup that works good with lead and doesn't burn as hot
    I know lots of people don't like fast powders and heavy bullets, but i love them. They make for some of the softest shooting and accurate target loads you can make!


    The ideal powder seems like it would be Solo 1000, but its out of stock everywhere!

    Some of the powders I think might fit the bill but i have no experience with them are:

    Bullseye
    Red Dot
    WST
    231
    Accurate Nitro 100
    Ramshot Competition
    Ramshot Zip

    Any experience or other suggestions?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master dbosman's Avatar
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    I don't see load data for any of those for a 147 gr lead bullet. Jacketed yes.
    In my own use, I'd try Red Dot, but that's because I like Red Dot in everything I've tried it in.
    Opinion not based by experimentation, I'd start with 2 grains and keep a dowel handy for driving out a squib.

  3. #3
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    Soft shooting fast powder for heavy bullets in 9mm 147gr-158gr

    Quote Originally Posted by dbosman View Post
    I don't see load data for any of those for a 147 gr lead bullet. Jacketed yes.
    Then you have data for a lead bullet. I will never understand why people think they need separate data for lead bullets. It's called load development for a reason. I've been using Universal w/ 147gr XTPs for years. I've found it works better w/ heavier bullets than 231. But both will work for what you want.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master vzerone's Avatar
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    Red Dot From 3.3 grains to 3.4 grains CCI-500 Primer
    W-231 From 3.5 grains to 4.3 grains CCI-500 Primer
    Unique From 3.7 grains to 4.7 grains CCI-500 Primer
    WAP From 3.7 grains to 5.3 grains CCI-500 Primer
    Bullseye From 3.2 grains to 4.5 grains CCI-500 Primer

    that WAP is Winchester AutoComp and it's great powder. I use a lot of it.

  5. #5
    Boolit Man MAGA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vzerone View Post
    Red Dot From 3.3 grains to 3.4 grains CCI-500 Primer
    W-231 From 3.5 grains to 4.3 grains CCI-500 Primer
    Unique From 3.7 grains to 4.7 grains CCI-500 Primer
    WAP From 3.7 grains to 5.3 grains CCI-500 Primer
    Bullseye From 3.2 grains to 4.5 grains CCI-500 Primer

    that WAP is Winchester AutoComp and it's great powder. I use a lot of it.
    What bullet weight? 147?

  6. #6
    Boolit Bub
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    I use 3.3 grains of bullseye with a powder coated 150grain boolit made from an accurate mold. The projectile is 0.660" long, and I seat at 1.145" OAL. These are approximately 900fps out of a 4.5"barrel.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    Richard Lee's Loading manual lists 3.2-3.4/Red Dot/147gr. XTP. Given a lead bullet's higher lubricity, you COULD find that the charge range is broader by 0.1gr. on each end, but keep a wooden dowel handy if you try to go below 3.2/Red Dot/147. I'm like dbosman, in that I have liked Red Dot in every caliber in which I've tried it. Even so, I think you'd be better served by something a little slower burning, like Unique, BE-86, or Herco
    For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18
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  8. #8
    Boolit Master vzerone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAGA View Post
    What bullet weight? 147?
    Those are for 147 grains like you asked. I've shot them in all my nines and they work great. I started with the starting loads.

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    Boolit Master JBinMN's Avatar
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    I just ran a ladder test the other day on the missus 38Sp (.357 LCR) using Red Dot & 148 gr. WC's( Along with some other weight boolits)
    I started at 2.1 & went up the ladder at 1/10th a gr. each time to 2.9 in an attempt to find some reduced load for her hands that have health issues. You will likely not need a stick for a squib from the powder, but you may not get full function of the slide at lower powder measures. I only did half of them for accuracy check, but I forgot the chrono that day so I cannot supply the ave. fps/mps for ya yet. I will be doing the rest of the ladder test for chrono prolly later this week. Just as an aside the snubbie had the best groups with 2.2/2.5/2.9 with 4/5 in the bull at 15 yds, benched. next I will have her try each & see which she prefers.

    I have some 9mm 124gr. all ready to go for the 9mm (SR9) for ladder testing the same Red Dot, but I have not loaded any of the 148gr. WC's or even 158gr SWC, as cast, in it yet. I am not sure when you will be making your decision of which powder, but I can load up some & do the same type of tests on them sometime in the next few days, if ya like. Just let me know if ya do, and I'll start making some up tomorrow night. Was gonna do it eventually anyway, but I take my time on this stuff, with no hurry, so I just had not got a round to it yet.


    P.S.- Red Dot works with a lot of firearms & is relatively inexpensive compared to others most of the time, IMO. Almost the same powder measures as Bullseye & both are efficient in regard to powder amounts per round as compared to other loads. Something to consider.


    ETA: 700X might be worth considering, but it is not on your list. Also close to the same amounts of powder as RD & BE, but a bit more expensive around here.
    Last edited by JBinMN; 10-18-2017 at 12:01 AM.
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  10. #10
    Boolit Man MAGA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBinMN View Post
    I just ran a ladder test the other day on the missus 38Sp (.357 LCR) using Red Dot & 148 gr. WC's( Along with some other weight boolits)
    I started at 2.1 & went up the ladder at 1/10th a gr. each time to 2.9 in an attempt to find some reduced load for her hands that have health issues. You will likely not need a stick for a squib from the powder, but you may not get full function of the slide at lower powder measures. I only did half of them for accuracy check, but I forgot the chrono that day so I cannot supply the ave. fps/mps for ya yet. I will be doing the rest of the ladder test for chrono prolly later this week. Just as an aside the snubbie had the best groups with 2.2/2.5/2.9 with 4/5 in the bull at 15 yds, benched. next I will have her try each & see which she prefers.

    I have some 9mm 124gr. all ready to go for the 9mm (SR9) for ladder testing the same Red Dot, but I have not loaded any of the 148gr. WC's or even 158gr SWC, as cast, in it yet. I am not sure when you will be making your decision of which powder, but I can load up some & do the same type of tests on them sometime in the next few days, if ya like. Just let me know if ya do, and I'll start making some up tomorrow night. Was gonna do it eventually anyway, but I take my time on this stuff, with no hurry, so I just had not got a round to it yet.
    Wow! That would be great!
    I am using the 155gr mold but the boolits actually weigh 157grains so if you could do the 147's or the 158's that would be really great!

    Thanks!

  11. #11
    Boolit Master JBinMN's Avatar
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    OK, I will try to do this for ya this week. I will start loading some tomorrow night after I get back from working on some of my oldest sons property. Hopefully be shooting them by the weekend, or sooner if I can get the time.


    Do you want some slightly reduced loads, or just in the range of the "manual(s)" start to max loads?
    "If ya don't like my gate, ya don't have to swing on the hinges..." - L. Ackerman ( RIP)

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have shot thousands of The Blue Bullet 147gr (actually 150gr) 9mm coated rounds using Nobel Sport Vectan Prima V. Clean, cool and soft shooting. Not a bad price at $14 per lb from Graf and Sons. They routinely have free shipping/hazmat with a 20lb purchase.

    3.2gr Prima V / TBB 147gr / 1.10 oal / Fed SPP Magnum / light taper crimp on Lee FCD / Chrono at 890fps in my CZ Shadow
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  13. #13
    Boolit Man MAGA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBinMN View Post
    OK, I will try to do this for ya this week. I will start loading some tomorrow night after I get back from working on some of my oldest sons property. Hopefully be shooting them by the weekend, or sooner if I can get the time.


    Do you want some slightly reduced loads, or just in the range of the "manual(s)" start to max loads?
    Just whatever you feel comfortable with
    According to NOE data for red dot and a 155gr they list from 2.6 to 2.8
    Which seems a little low compared to the data you guys have listed and this bullet is made to be loaded long so it's not a case capacity issue

  14. #14
    Boolit Master vzerone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAGA View Post
    Just whatever you feel comfortable with
    According to NOE data for red dot and a 155gr they list from 2.6 to 2.8
    Which seems a little low compared to the data you guys have listed and this bullet is made to be loaded long so it's not a case capacity issue

    Not disagreeing with you on the Red Dot load, but remember that 155 is 8 grains heavier then the loads I gave for Red Dot with the 147 grain. The 155 grain would likely have more bearing surface. I would start with the low loads and work up. All the loads I posted I've shot out of various 9mm's and they are very good loads.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master JBinMN's Avatar
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    I will give you the data I find & use(sources), & what loads I use, & you can make the decisions on what you want to use.


    I do not use max loads for anything I shoot. I try to stay .1 gr. below Max., at minimum. If someone else wants to go higher than it is on them.


    I am quite content to stay below the suggested maximum. I "pushed the envelope" over the years on other things & paid/are paying for it. LOL


    Anyway, I use about 4-5 manuals I have for data & then I also bounce the data off of others, & use other sources like here on the internet. As most folks who use some common sense & reload, folks generally use the starting load & work up for each firearm. And others, like me, will also work on reduced loads for those who can't handle the recoil, etc., for some reason or another, like my wifes hand issues & my grandsons being only 7 & 8 with lil hands. Then , ya have the ones who "want to push the envelope" & more power to them. Everyone is different.


    I will let ya know what I find anyway. In a few days...
    "If ya don't like my gate, ya don't have to swing on the hinges..." - L. Ackerman ( RIP)

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    What pistol are you shooting them out of? I am using 3 different Glocks with Titegroup and a 147gr with Hi-Tek. The mold is from Accurate and has no lube grooves. I also previously use 147gr from Bayou without issue.

  17. #17
    Boolit Man MAGA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBinMN View Post
    I will give you the data I find & use(sources), & what loads I use, & you can make the decisions on what you want to use.


    I do not use max loads for anything I shoot. I try to stay .1 gr. below Max., at minimum. If someone else wants to go higher than it is on them.


    I am quite content to stay below the suggested maximum. I "pushed the envelope" over the years on other things & paid/are paying for it. LOL


    Anyway, I use about 4-5 manuals I have for data & then I also bounce the data off of others, & use other sources like here on the internet. As most folks who use some common sense & reload, folks generally use the starting load & work up for each firearm. And others, like me, will also work on reduced loads for those who can't handle the recoil, etc., for some reason or another, like my wifes hand issues & my grandsons being only 7 & 8 with lil hands. Then , ya have the ones who "want to push the envelope" & more power to them. Everyone is different.


    I will let ya know what I find anyway. In a few days...

    Awesome thanks!
    I too am after reduced loads, I don't load anything at max, I enjoy low recoil soft shooting accurate loads also.
    We have a gun show this weekend so hopefully I can pick up a pound of red dot.

    I too use data from multiple sources, I always check several manuals and compare the data before I work up a load

    I look forward to hearing about your results!

  18. #18
    Boolit Man MAGA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wlkjr View Post
    What pistol are you shooting them out of? I am using 3 different Glocks with Titegroup and a 147gr with Hi-Tek. The mold is from Accurate and has no lube grooves. I also previously use 147gr from Bayou without issue.
    Glock 43, for this one. It's funny I buy commercial cast acme 145gr hi tek coated bullets and shoot with 2.8gr of titegroup and get no leading!
    I guess they use hardball alloy though instead of wheel weights lol

  19. #19
    Boolit Master JBinMN's Avatar
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    While I was doing my research before loading I found this for ya. It is with a different powder than RDot (WIN 231), but you can likely use the info since the powder used was on your list in the OP.:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...l=1#post706842

    Here is the topic from the top:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...boolits-in-9mm

    Some of the things I am checking on before I load any rounds will be OAL, & feed for both the 147WC & the SWC158. I have been thinking about this since yesterday. If I can not get the WC to feed after setting it out so I do not compress the load, I think I will take a file & remove some of the tip of the 158 gr. SWC to bring it down to 147gr. & see if that feeds.
    I have some 124gr. 2Rs that I have been using & I think I may just seat the 147 or 158 to the same depth into the case as the 124gr & check OAL to make sure it is not over the Max OAL and go with that, then check for feed & plunk. That way it will not be taking up any more case room than the 124gr. and cause an overpressure from that.

    Once I get the OAL & Feed taken care of, then I will be figuring out the loads for the ladder testing of each. Then, as I test the loads when I fire, I will be looking for cycling issues & overpressure issues as I go up in powder amounts. At the same time observing the FPS from the chrony as I go. I will not be looking for accuracy at this point, just finding the "window" for the loads. I am still researching the loads, & have found some to use both in the manuals & online. I will be starting relatively low for reduced loads & safety reasons first, then move up to approach the start loads I have found and keep an eye on possible issues.

    I will repeat that I am using a Ruger SR9 for this & it is relatively new. With only 3-400 rounds thru it, so it should be up to the task & basically just broken in. Feeding issues may not be the same for your 9mm, & of course are dependent on the boolits tip as well. ( I am pretty sure the WC is gonna be a "no go" because of the flatness, but I will try it with a dummy or two a few times to see if I can make it work anyway, otherwise, I will file down the 158SWCs to 147 & try those too.)

    My main goal right now is finding the reduced loads below "book" start loads up to a point that is still below max & cycles the firearm well.( <should be in the lower 2grs, then go up) Then work back down or up again from the bottom (reduced start) for accuracy "sweet spot(s)".

    Well, that is all I am up to for ya at this point with the Red Dot testing. I will be doing more tomorrow & hopefully shooting by Friday.

    If I run across any more loads or data for the other powders as I go, I will bring them here for ya.


    I hope I am not overwhelming your topic here with my posts, I just want to share what I am doing & what I find to help. Both you & me, plus possibly others who come along later. But, if ya want me to back off, I certainly can. Just let me know.
    "If ya don't like my gate, ya don't have to swing on the hinges..." - L. Ackerman ( RIP)

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    Boolit Master JBinMN's Avatar
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    Last edited by JBinMN; 10-19-2017 at 01:39 AM. Reason: added link
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check