Just asking ?

[Tenbender]

When I got the idea I wanted to cast I read everything I could get my hands on so I would have a idea where I was going. I have only been casting about 3 or 4 years so bare with me.
Sense the threads talk mostly about " hardball, Lyman #2 and superhard " alloy I think I must be missing something. When I started I had a supply of wheel weights and I bought a supply of lino and tin. The boolits I cast were ok but not good enough to keep up the hobby. A year ago I cast some softer, like 6 and 7 bhn boolits for my 3030 and 4570 to hunt with. Looking at a boolit from a black powder kill the pure lead opened up so I figured that would be the ticket in other rifles. Like I said I cast around 6 bhn and not pure.
My accuracy went way up with the softer alloy. I still have no leading. So why do people use the hard stuff ? Or has everyone been brainwashed into thinking a soft boolit will lead there barrel. Maybe I didn't read the right books on the subject.
Some of you old timers in casting fill me in ?

[Oklahoma Rebel]

some just think they need it, others,for high velocity, many people here use half clip on WW's with half soft, or pure, lead, for hunting. you can quench it from the mold to gain some hardness so it wont lead as much, but I don't think its too bad to begin with.

[Maven]

10bender, Harder alloys, e.g. linotype, drop slightly CB's of slightly greater diameter than pure Pb, but they'll also be lighter than pure Pb. Perhaps their use is one way of compensating for a mold which casts too small or even too heavy? OTOH, harder alloys, with proper lubrication, can be driven faster than softer ones and, what I gather from the Cast Bullet Association's "Fouling Shot" match results, more accurately as well [at higher velocities]. Btw, I use nothing harder than WW's + ~1% Sn, not water dropped or oven heat treated, and have had no problems with accuracy or bore leading at 1,700 - 1,800 fps in my rifles.

[17nut]

Bullet hardness has always been a crutch for poor bullet fit.
It's the way commercial casters compensate for "one size fits all".
And that rock hard "lube" they use, does next to nothing for sealing the gasses.

I'm with you!
I shoot 97/3 plain base up tp @1600fps
Add a check and i push that alloy past 1750fps (in a Marlin micro groove none the less) 1850fps if you count my Swedish rolling block in 8x58RD, but that is a loooong bullet with suare inches of bearing surface.
94/3/3 i push past 2100fps with a check (easy)

[runfiverun]

no they can't.
the harder alloy's are compensating for mold design.

you have different states of fitment, and a design that relies totally on mechanical fitment [300 XCB design] needs a harder alloy to fight and resist the deformation acceleration and lead displacement places on it.

one like the rcbs 0-55s relies on nose strength and needs a more balanced alloy like Lyman-2.
several of the silhouette bore riding designs also shoot much better with a balanced 3/3 or 5/5 type alloy also.

one with a strong sloping drive band area that allows the lead to move and flow through the paradox affect without the design being changed into a wad cutter can be driven to speed also.
it just needs enough mechanical support to get started straight then it can rely on a static moving fitment to get it on paper/game properly.
these can be run with low tin and lower antimony alloys, and respond to heat treatment to distribute the antimony matrix within the alloy even better.

[country gent]

One reason is the cast manufacturers tout hard alloys as best is they hold up better thru shipping. Same with the hard lubes they use. I started casting with wheel weights and lino mix for handguns and while they did shoot it was sometimes hit or miss o a batch. When I started with the bpcr rifles and 20-1 lead tin I got no leading better accuracy and more important more consistant accuracy batch to batch. Feeding in some smi autos may require harder bullets or some polishing / tuning on the pistol to feed with out damage. My 1911s feed full wadcutters with no problems and softer alloys as well. My one 1911 is a 38 spl wadcutter gun.

[Hickory]

95% of my casting needs are done with alloy that BHN's between 9-12.
Another 3-4% is pure lead for muzzleloaders.

[Grmps]

some people are trying to get away from gas checks

[Rcmaveric]

Learned something new today. I never considered bullet design being a deciding factor. Though I only understand about 50% Runfiverun's explanation, I understand the driving band part (sometimes it takes crayons for me to grasp a concept, military spoiled me with its 6th grade reading level tech manuals). I always thought bullet fit and malleability to pressures was the driving ideology of higher BHNs. I know I don't use what my reloading manuals tell me to use for alloy. It tells me to Linotype for , but the softer alloy's I mix up in my redneck laboratory is around Lyman #2 BHN. Lee's reloading manuals made so much sense to match pressures with BHN.

[jdfoxinc]

I use "hardball" 6%-2% because I get a lower % of culls. BHN is the same aslyman #2 and Costa less.

[runfiverun]

lee's manual is telling you an engineer number that deals with shear stress numbers.[plastic deformation]
your supporting the alloy in a steel tube.
so your deformation comes from the back of the bullet going forward.
avoiding that by delaying the high pressure until the boolit is moving and fully supported allows you to ignore that stupid 1422 number.

in other words believe what you see not what your read.

[Walter Laich]

I guess I never wondered about this though it is good to know

I just gravitated to the softer alloys as a cast over the years. My thoughts were if it was accurate and didn't lead it was good. Now I find out there is science behind that--who knew?

oh, turns out a bunch of people did

off today to make numerous modified cylinders out of base metal

[Tenbender]

in other words believe what you see not what your read.

I have been doing that for awhile now. I still have some hard cast boolits that I will use up but I find the softer 6 to 7 bhn just group better. I do have some .224 boolits that is about 18 bhin that I shoot at 2600 - 2700 fps . They do well also but I just shoot paper and varmints with those. By the way, I powder coat my hunting loads. That might help keep the leading down. My lubed pistol rounds are straight wheel weights.
The reason I started this thread, I just wondered if casters were casting hard boolits because of what they read or I was so uninformed I didn't know the reason behind it. You read a lot of threads on this forum about people like me loading hunting rounds of softer alloy. I'm using softer because it just shoots better.

[gwpercle]

The reason for the "harder is better" and you have to "water drop and harden " is misinformation , ignorance and listening to "experts" who don't know jack !

For years I cast with nothing but free clip on wheel weights, air cooled . Then my free WW supply dried up. Started mixing COWW with scrap lead 50/50 to extend my supply....guess what , the softer mix is better. Handguns and rifles , 50/50 - WW/Lead, works like a charm .
This is for real...proper boolit fit is much more important than boolit hardness. A bullet that is hard and undersized will lead like the dickens !
Hardness is very overrated !
Gary

[Cherokee]

3/3/94 is the hardest alloy I use, for rifle bullets in the 1600 fps range and for 9mm. Everything else is 2% tin and COWW, and I know I don't "need" that much tin. This has been in the last 20 years or so; for the 30 years before that I was in the Lyman #2 school because of all I read when getting started.