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Thread: Powder coating soft lead for 44 mag?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master derek45's Avatar
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    Powder coating soft lead for 44 mag?

    Friend gave me a bunch of tele-cable sheath

    I want to cast 44mag, and 38sp,..... and HF powder coat

    with the powder coat, will they work OK, or do I need to mix in some tin and antimony ?

    The lead seems pretty soft

    Thanks
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  2. #2
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    Why not save it for muzzle load? Trade it for WW? Mix a bit with WW then PC.
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  3. #3
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    You may want something a little harder for those rounds.
    As for powder coating, I coat pure lead to foundry with no problems.
    Save yourself some anguish and get some powder from Smoke, a vendor on this forum.
    His powders work much better than HF powders.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master MyFlatline's Avatar
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    AS Grmps said, you can coat any hardness lead. I coat 7/8 BHN for the 45 acp but think the 44 should be a touch harder.

    The Harbor Freight powders are not the top of the line but the red is the best and I have used many pounds of it for spraying. Smokes powder is said to be very good, I tried some from "Powder by the Pound" and have been very pleased. I'm sure there are many others out there. I told Smoke I would try his next, just need to use up this 20 pounds first.

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    These mushrooms are 7-7.5 BH that were PC and GC 44 mag devastators. My mix was pure lead(lead flooring sheets) and 6% pewter. My pure lead started out between 5-6 BH and the pewter didn't harden it much. I chronied them at 1675fps at 15 yards out of my 77/44. No leading what so ever but after the boolit expanded the PC shedded. You can barely see the dark blue PC under the mushrooms. I didn't get tons of penatration, caught one of my boolits in a milk jug after it went through only three Gatorade bottles and shedded most of its weight. Didn't weigh them but they mushroomed and shedded most their weight. Probably would make a good self defence load and not pass through a wall but after much thought I wouldn't use them for anything bigger than coyotes. My next batch will be 50/50 COWW and pure mix with some pewter so I get more weight retention and penatration. I tried the same velocity with COWW AC with a BH of 14.3. I penatrated and passed through 8 milk jugs and it kept going. I want a middle of the road BH between the two. I were you I would mix it 50/50 with COWW and and some tin, 2% if you have some.

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    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 10-16-2017 at 08:30 PM.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master derek45's Avatar
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    I've used up all my supply of WW

    I've seen smoke's thread, and may buy some after my HF powder runs dry. HF PC is working for now

    Had not thought of trading, might post something at my gun club.

    was thinking about buying some antimony and tin, but not sure.

    thanks for the replies, so far.
    Derek
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  7. #7
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    For some reason I am thinking tele-lead was somewhere around a 10 BHN. Did you test it? I wouldn't blink an eye for the 38s and for the 44s I would start with something that is a somewhat light and work up checking for possable leading. Maybe 30-40 rounds each should give some real indication. I use HF red with a HF sprayer with extremely good luck. That being said I don't want to leave out Smokes powdercoat especially if your using the shake and bake method.
    Sometimes it takes a second box of boolits to clear my head.
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    Powder coating will probably prevent leading with that soft alloy but at 44 mag pressures a harder alloy will no doubt outshoot your soft bullets. PC does nothing to offset bullets deforming under pressure.

  9. #9
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    I also would expect the hardness to be nearer 10.
    Send a piece to someone here that will volunteer to test it or get some pencils and try your hand at testing it yourself.
    These are some TL430-240-SWC HF red powder coated fired at 1410fps into a dirt pile. Hardness was BH11.

    These are some of the same BH11 HF red powder coated but from a TL358-158-SWC at 1175fps.
    Last edited by tsubaki; 10-17-2017 at 06:47 AM.
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  10. #10
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grmps View Post
    You may want something a little harder for those rounds.
    As for powder coating, I coat pure lead to foundry with no problems.
    Save yourself some anguish and get some powder from Smoke, a vendor on this forum.
    His powders work much better than HF powders.
    +1 for Smokes powder. It is a LOT easier to get good results with than HF.
    Last edited by murf205; 10-18-2017 at 07:39 AM.
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  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    I'm guessing my 50/50 mix of ACCOWW and pure lead mixed with 2% pewter is gong to be around 10 BH. The COWW tested around 14.3. I used th mix the other day for Lee 200g for my 35 rem and some 255 g for my 45 colt. Going to use it for my 44 mag devistators as well with velocities around 1850 out of my rifle. If your lead has a BH of 10 you will be fine with PC. You will get boolit expansion and energy transfer with 10 BH at normal velocities. Start casting, PC, and shoot. If you don't have a tester fill up about 8 or more milk jugs and see how many it penatrated. Then check your mushroom compared to mine and the 11 BH shown and you'll have a ruff idea how hard your lead is. With my 7 BH I made it to about 4 jugs and the base was litteraly flattened to the mushroom. I'm guessing they weigh a 100g tops. My 14.3 BH made it through all 8 jugs I set up and kept going. Looks like the 11 BH above is the ticket...or a little harder. I might try 3/4 ACCOWW 1/4 pure and 2% pewter for my devistators at rifle velocities over 1600 fps.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 10-17-2017 at 10:58 AM.

  12. #12
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    The cable sheathing I used was nearly pure lead (courtesy of LADWP), very soft and I'd guess it was lower than 10 BHN. prolly 8. I have used range scrap (BHN around 10-12) with magnum loads in my .44s and when PCed, have had no problems...
    My Anchor is holding fast!

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master fredj338's Avatar
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    Depends on your vel needs, but as noted, PC is not a substitute for proper alloy vs pressures/velocities. I would use pure lead to 1000fps or so then after that, start looking to alloy with tin &/or antimony.
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  14. #14
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    If you can find some pewter at a thrift store (pewter is mostly tin) you can smelt that and add it as tin.

    Here is a link to a calculator that can help with alloys

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/atta...1&d=1407425452

    And a cheaper way to test hardness
    Testing hardness with pencils
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...s-with-pencils
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post3554910

    HF red works (not as well), I only used it on shotgun slugs after I got smokes

    Tripplebeards was using gas-checks which also allows you to go softer.

    You never mentioned how hard you were going to push them.

    If you stay sub-sonic and use gas checks that's a different story
    Last edited by Grmps; 10-17-2017 at 03:07 PM.

  15. #15
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    back in the old days they used tin with their lead.
    I would bet 25 or 30-1 would be more than enough with the P/C applied.
    I realize a pound of tin would only make like 5-600 boolits.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master derek45's Avatar
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    I want to make the 38's about 850fps, and the 44's, about 900-1100. I have plane base, and gas checkmolds, and would rather skip the GC.

    Thinking if I mix about 35-40lbs of this stuff with a bar of

    Super Hard Alloy Metal - 5 pounds (30%-Antimony, 70%-Lead)

    https://www.rotometals.com/super-har...imony-70-lead/

    It should be near 12brinell . . . did I calculate that about right ?
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  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master

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    An aside, what's the downside of using soft lead, 9-10 BHN, and PC for bullets? PC removes the leading, so perhaps bullet skidding?
    My Anchor is holding fast!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    Powder coating will probably prevent leading with that soft alloy but at 44 mag pressures a harder alloy will no doubt outshoot your soft bullets. PC does nothing to offset bullets deforming under pressure.
    I totally agree.

    and I'll add, a deformed boolit will still be accurate enough at short range. But once you start shooting past 25 yards the poor accuracy will be obvious.
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  19. #19
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    I'd take the lead amount up 50 lbs would get you to about 3% antimony.
    a little tin and you'd be right near ww or isotope core alloy.
    me being me I would take it even further 70 lbs of lead and 5 lbs of the 30% alloy would be closer to what I'm using anyway.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master derek45's Avatar
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    ok cool how much tin should I add to 50lbs ?

    2% ?
    Last edited by derek45; 10-18-2017 at 09:26 PM.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check