What do you think they should do?

[vzerone]

guess the germans want to be like men again....

NO ONE can say the m4 crappola out performs the garand, the k31, the 24/47 or carcano

Well heck no the M4 isn't going to outperform those and I presume you mean in power and terminal ballistics. Now a semi and full automatic does out perform a bolt action in putting out fire power and keeping the enemie's heads down. Also that short carbine is better fit to room to room house cleaning then say that long Garand. Like I've said you can't eat your cake and have it too with the M4 carbine.

[Larry Gibson]

Yup, HK416A7 is gas piston driven instead of impingement operated. Weighs 8.2 lbs but don't know if that includes suppressor, sight or loaded magazine? Has a 14.5" barrel and is still 5.56 NATO..........

[bruce drake]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...-7-62mm-round/

Someone mentioned shooting a lighter 130gr bullet in the 7.62x51?

The NEW M80A1 ball ammo. 130gr bullet with a steel exposed penetrator point...at 3000fps....

https://youtu.be/yW-jlvNQA8w - Ballistics test.

[vzerone]

Yup, HK416A7 is gas piston driven instead of impingement operated. Weighs 8.2 lbs but don't know if that includes suppressor, sight or loaded magazine? Has a 14.5" barrel and is still 5.56 NATO..........

Larry that new HK433 is prepared for a 7.62 NATO meaning the distance apart the take down pins are. The 7.62 NATO version, they say, is coming and it will be called the HK231.

You are wrong about the weight and your supposition of a 14.5 barrel. It's 7.71 pounds with a 16 inch barrel.

[Larry Gibson]

You just don't learn do you........

On October 10, the Bundesamt für Ausrüstung, Informationstechnik und Nutzung der Bundeswehr (Federal Office for Equipment, Information Technology of the German Armed Forces) ordered Heckler & Koch from Oberndorf to supply 1,745 H&K 416 A7 weapons and accessories.

The Bundeswehr designation is expected to be G95 (G is Gewehr which is German for Rifle). It is a gas piston rifle in the caliber 5.56 mm x 45 NATO. The weapon has a weight of 3.690 kg and a barrel length of 14.5″. The G95 is to be the new standard gun of the KSK ( Kommando Spezialkräfte) and the special forces command of the Navy (KSM) and is expected to be delivered to the force beginning January 2019. Technical testing at the military service center 91 as well as tactical testing by the special forces starts in November 2017. This German Special Forces adoption is of a newer edition of the HK416 than that which in use with US and UK SOF. It will be very interesting to see which laser boxes and optics will be chosen for the new Sturmgewehr Spezialkräfte.

[vzerone]

Interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYfGq1yk66Q

[vzerone]

I mentioned just going back to the original Spanish/german 125 grain bullets in the 7.62x51. if made right from solid copper, thing the PPU thunder bullet that was not hollow pointed, youd blow through most guys and the majority of body armor. fragmentation at short range would be like a chainsaw going through someone.

Don't need it we already have a speciall armor piercing 5.56 round they've been using in Afghanistan called:

5.56 mm, Armor Piercing, M995 [Black tip]

This is true armor piercing in that is has a tungsen core.

[Larry Gibson]

Here's the AR 10 promo video of 60 years or so ago.....sure looks good but everyone has been working on it the last 60 years. Maybe the German's after 60 years +/- of "development" and adding 2 more pounds of receiver weight have got it?

https://archive.org/details/AR10_Promotion

[vzerone]

WILL TAKE IT!!! LOL I think they should have adopted the AR10 instead of the M16, especially considering that we already had the 7.62 NATO ammo for it and the ammo more or less was pretty well established.

I think a mistake when they did one of the tests for the military was that light weight lined barrel that had a bullet rupture through the side. That made them look really bad. Scrap that idea. Now one thing I liked is they had an easier better adjustable rear sight then the M16 having to use a bullet point to adjust it. The AR10 also had the gas tube coming in the left side of bolt/carrier and no gas key like the M16. I wonder if it stayed cleaner inside because of that then the M16? The belt felt back pack was interesting. The grenade/rocket launch method was far different then what the M16 ended up with. Notice too that they were cleaning the rifle in various pictures on that video. What the hell happened to the idea of cleaning the M16 when they first shoved it on our soldiers in Vietnam?

Yup if they would have adopted that they would have a 60 year refining period over with.

Impressive video Larry thanks for putting that up.

Hey why no comment on that armor piercing ammo I posted above this?

[Multigunner]

"Hey why no comment on that armor piercing ammo I posted above this? "
I'll say this about it. No 5.56 AP bullet will deliver as much as a 7.62 AP bullet of the same design.

The 130 grain 7.62 I mentioned earlier is a very effective AP bullet at much higher velocity than the standard M80 ball. It should remain effective at much greater range than the 5.56 AP.

The situation is like this IMHO. Both have short comings.
The short comings of the 7.62 are recoil and controllability in a lightweight weapon and the weight of the ammunition restricting how many rounds can be carried.
The shortcomings of the 5.56 is inability to penetrate substantial barriers unless expensive AP ammo is used and the relatively shorter range that such a round will remain effective, especially in high crosswind conditions, also its lack of effectiveness against even thin skinned vehicles much less substantial military spec vehicles. Even if the body metal is penetrated the bullets aren't as likely to disable an engine or fatally wound occupants who are wearing body armor, the lightweight bullet is already spent.
Modern urban buildings, office buildings stores and such, usually have tough steel door frames set in concrete and often sheet steel fire doors. A 5.56 is not much use in such a setting, One would have to resort to grenades to route out die hards more often than if a 7.62 weapon with AP ammo were handy. The die hard hiding behind that door frame would have the advantage in a grenade tossing match, he doesn't have to expose himself.
I've put 7.62X54r steel core bullets through even more substantial steel frames.

I've stated earlier that each round and weapon type has its uses and disadvantages. There should be several 7.62 rifles available in each squad to back up the more lightly armed members when necessary. This seems to be the way things have been done in recent years.

[vzerone]

The Swedish rounds that were adopted by the U.S. military as M993 & M995 were developed by Forenede FabriksVerken (FFV in Karlsborg, Sweden)) in the late 80s. The earliest headstamps are "070" until '90 then "FFV" in '91. FFV merged with Carl Gustav/Bofors in '91-'92 who started headstamping the 5.56mm & 7.62mm AP cartridges "CG". Raufoss of MK 211 MOD 0 .50 Cal HEIAP fame also merged into the CG/ Bofors group in 1993. Then Carl Gustav/Bofors and several other Nordic munitions manufacturer's all merged into NAMMO in '98. NAMMO kept the "CG" headstamp. The U.S. type classified 7.62MM M993 AP cartridge 02/16/96 and 5.56mm M995 AP cartridge 03/29/96.

Here's an interesting pdf file. Both the M995 (5.56 NATO) and the M993 (7.62 NATO) are on it, but there is no penetration value for the M995.

https://www.nammo.com/globalassets/p...g_2014_web.pdf

BTW lots of different 5.56 NATO ammo in that file.

[vzerone]

https://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...tions/m993.htm