458 Win Mag with cast

[Slogg76]

I was going to pick up another 45-70, but a fellow I know may let me have a CZ Safari in 458 Winchester Magnum at quite a bargain. Turns out it was to much for him to handle and he dosen't reload. Does anyone have any experience shooting cast out of a 458 mag? I was especially interested in how they handle reduced (45-70 level) loads. It appears as though the 458 has a faster twist rate than most 45-70 chambered rifles leading me to believe a 458 mag would prefer heavy bullets. I am curious to know if a 458 Win Mag will handle reduced loads and still maintain good accuracy.

[Heavy lead]

Can't attest to a 458, but I shoot cast out of my Ruger 77 416 Rigby and I love it.
I would think it would be a great platform and those CZ's are great rifles, I've got a couple smaller caliber CZ's and you' love it.

[e15cap]

22gr of 4227 and a Lyman 420 gr bullet will turn that Elephant gun into a fun shooting rabbit gun, and a very accurate one at that. I fired my buddy's .458 until the Weaver scope on it fell apart inside and like the dog making love to a skunk said "Thats all of this fun I can stand". Or use the same bullet and a full case of Swiss 1.5fg and think of it as a 45-90.
Best Roger

[94Doug]

I have a Ruger #1 in 458 Lott, and shoot it with both Lott and Win Mags with cast boolits, loaded with 4759, Trail Boss, or 3031.

Doug

[James C. Snodgrass]

Like Doug I've got the #1 Lott. I like 17grs of Trailboss with a lee 500 sp it gives me 1100 fps and will shoot into 1.25 " at 100yds and is a lot of fun. I also have gotten good accuracy with a case full of slow powder like wc-860 but it is pretty dirty. You will enjoy the 458 . Good luck James

[Slogg76]

Thanks for the replies. I imagined the 458 would be easy to load down. Hopefully I will own one soon.

[windrider919]

I shoot lots of 458 but my custom built rifle has an 18" twist and was sold to me by Shelen as a cast bullet land/grove profile. I shoot bullets of 350 to 450 mostly as the 5oo+ grainers just are too punishing for me, even at reduced loads.

I got into Paper Patch and was amazed at the accuracy I achieved over ALL jacketed and most conventional cast / sized / lubed bullets. HOWEVER, I do not shoot BP much in .458, even though it ic almost identical to 45-100. If you try PP with smokeless you must be aware that a slightly different set of rules apply. The bullets do not obturate like with BP and the paper may not be effective unless there are small groves or knurling for the paper to grip as it is fired. I tried bumping up bullets to .454 and paper patching and git 1" groups with some combinations.

Note that the bullet throat of many .458s is oversize and may require a bullet over .459. Mine, even with all the custom work, ended up with a .463 throat.

This is the 3rd .458 I have owned and it has become the 'Main' rifle for me. Somewhere in some thread at Cast Boolits is a picture of some of my loads. Including .357 Sabot, shotshell, round ball tree rat n rabbit load, .451 XTP pistol bullets w/ PP to shoot .459, etc.

Another point is not to overlook overpowder wads. Many of my loads tightened up when I started trying wads.

Great all around cartridge that got a bad rep because there are not too many elephants running free range in N Am. Good for stopping charging Kenworths though. Loaded down into comfortable recoil range most rifles are accurate and fun shooters. Enjoy yours

[wonderwolf]

I've tried light loads in my .458 Win Mag and at first I was having trouble with them being too light as the cases would not seal and get gassed in the face. A load my .458 really likes a 500gr cast boolit (water quenched wheel weights) on top of 55gr of 4198. I've yet to get any leading in my barrel and these loads are accurate and leave the barrel at 1900fps as compared to the factory 510gr leaving at 2400fps.

is the CZ a 550? I've been really curious about those. they go for about $800-$1,000 around here depending on who is selling them. I looked at a few at this years NRA convention and I really liked the laminate stocks they had to offer.

[26Charlie]

My friend uses the RCBS 300 gr. GC with 16 gr. of Unique for a light load. I use a 475 gr. Lyman PB with a card wad against the bullet base (NOT down on the powder! Don't risk a ringed chamber!) and 40.5 gr. 4198 for a general purpose load, and have used 500 gr. and heavier GC bullets with 57 gr. of 4895 for a heavy load. Those are unpleasant off the bench. The ball seat is long, so all the bullets are seated and crimped far out in the case.
My rifle is a Remington M700 with 26 inch barrel, 14-inch twist. With the factory open sights it will group 2" for 5 shots, at 100 yards, or better.

[Johnw...ski]

I shoot mostly Lee 500 gr. gas check boolits out of mine. With a blade front sight and a receiver peep my records show 2-1/4" groups from 100 yds. off a front and rear rest. The load is 69 gr. IMR 3031 and a CCI 250 primer for about 1860 FPS,
it kinda hurts from the rest but is pleasant offhand.

It's aceptable accuracy but for cast boolits I think the rifle would do better with something slower than the 1 in 14" twist.

Good Luck,

John

[wonderwolf]

I've tried the lee 500gr boolit with sucess but I shy away from it since its gas checked. Still works well though. I would like to see how the 535gr lyman postell performs in the .458 win mag.

[Three Bears]

Has anyone tried the 457-340gr mold? I have been reloading jacketed 350 gr for my .458 win mag and have had great results - 4 shots one ragged hole, lead sled 100yds. my reloading stuff is still packed from moving back to LA from AK. Wife asked what I wanted for Christmas....reloading stuff /new mold... A friend of mine has a 45-70 and I would like to load both with the Lee 340gr. Reduced loads for pigs..... Thanks

[BulletGeek]

A good friend of mine shoots a Ruger No. 1 Tropical in .458 using a bullet I cast for him; it's the RCBS gas-checked 500-grain RNFP.

The rifle is finicky about cast bullets owing to the cavernous throat, but for some reason the RCBS 500-grainer shoots very well in it. We started with a reduced load of 4895 and realized that we had essentially turned the rifle into a highly accurate .45-90. In fact, this bullet shot so well in the rifle across powders and charges that the gun's owner decided to actually look for a combination that shot poorly. Basically any book load would shoot 50-yard cloverleafs, and nice small groups at 100. Point of impact varies greatly with velocity, however, with faster loads shooting lower. We could run it up to 1900 with very consistent results. It could be shot faster, but our aching shoulders didn't see the point.

We also had good luck with the Lyman 350-grain plain-base RNFP, I think it's profile number 457192. The key to that one is to shoot it as-cast and finger-lubed, and not too fast. It was dropping from the mold at .462, and the extra diameter seemed to help it negotiate the throat.

[Three Bears]

Thanks BulletGeek...I forgot to mention that my rifle is a Model 70 Safari Express, added a mercury buffer in the stock and had the trigger reduced from 8.5 to 3 lbs. no travel or creep.. I think the 500gr would turn our swamp swig for a loop - that is why I was thinking along the 350grfor my relief also.

[Jim]

I also have gotten good accuracy with a case full of slow powder like wc-860 but it is pretty dirty.

James,
Prime that 860 with a coupla grains of Bullseye and a magnum rifle primer. It'll clean up that dirty burn.

[StrawHat]

I had a M98 so chambered in the late 70s. I could not afford factory so I always shot reloads and usually cast.

Back then I was not as concerned about leading and such, did not know any better.

I do remember a load that did not lead and worked on whitetail deer.

I loaded the 450 grain Lee over a case full of black powder. Since I was using some commercial nitro powder grease on the bullets, cleaning was a pain but the accuracy was decent. I have to imagine they were pure WWs back then.

It turned the 458 into a belted 45-90.

[BulletGeek]

Thanks BulletGeek...I forgot to mention that my rifle is a Model 70 Safari Express, added a mercury buffer in the stock and had the trigger reduced from 8.5 to 3 lbs. no travel or creep.. I think the 500gr would turn our swamp swig for a loop - that is why I was thinking along the 350grfor my relief also.

The 500 isn't bad if you don't mind shooting it at 1500 fps. The recoil very much resembles shooting a maxi-ball out of a 50-caliber muzzleloader... more of a push than a smack.

I made up a handful of those RCBS 500-grainers in a dual-alloy configuration with a pure-lead nose and a wheel-weight base, and my buddy poked one of these through a young whitetail buck this season. It was more or less a broadside shot through both lungs with a caliber-sized entry hole, a twice-caliber-sized exit hole, and much pulped tissue in between. It would have been a serviceable load for moose.

It's kind of like cracking walnuts with a sledgehammer, but he's having fun with it, and you can't really fault it for being inhumane.

The deer ran 40 yards before it piled up, by the way.

[primersp]

i have a 458 brno zkk 602 i slug the bore 459,5
all smalls bullets 3000grs rcbs -405 saeco 018 cast at 458 aren't not accurate
the lyman 478 grs gc shoot fine cast 459 but the better is a nei 460-505
sledghammer a clover leaf at 100m with a vectan tu 2000 and kappock filler

[cowboy]

I have a Ruger #1 in 458 Lott, and shoot it with both Lott and Win Mags with cast boolits, loaded with 4759, Trail Boss, or 3031.

Doug

Howdy-
Not to hijack-I've a CZ550 in .416 Rigby and would be interested in cast load info.

[Rafe Covington]

I have a Ruger M77 in .458, I use AA 5744 in it quite abit. I been shooting a 495 grain cast at about 1700 fps, hardly any recoil and very accurate.

MERRY CHRISTMAS

Harold