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Thread: A doubt about reduced load.

  1. #21
    Boolit Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vzerone View Post
    Larry have you ever tried Red Dot inside of Bullseye? It works pretty well too.
    Sure, shot lots of RD. But BE ain't broke so I don't fix it......unless, of course, you have some RD for a very good price.......
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  2. #22
    Boolit Master vzerone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Sure, shot lots of RD. But BE ain't broke so I don't fix it......unless, of course, you have some RD for a very good price.......
    Isn't that the truth!

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    Use a lot of Trail Boss for light loads in 38 special with 125 grain powder coated cast bullets.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master JBinMN's Avatar
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    There is a topic where enlarging flash holes in cases that is 180 degrees from what is being posted here & it is a bit confusing for it.
    The topic is this one: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...&p=4188640#top

    Some folks here say it is ok & some folks there say it is not.
    One of the posters there, the Moderator "ReloaderFred" quoted an article that Starline made a comment that it is not a safe practice with loaded projectiles, but is OK with blanks.

    I am not pointing this out to create any hassles, only to try to get clarification for myself & any others who may read about doing it to try an accomplish one thing & then not read about not doing it because it could cause a safety issue...
    "If ya don't like my gate, ya don't have to swing on the hinges..." - L. Ackerman ( RIP)

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    USMC 6638

  6. #26
    Boolit Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    I posted this response on that other thread:



    It never ceases to amaze me the contradictions we do;

    Many firearm manufacturers say not to use handloads in their guns….yet we do.

    Many :experts” say not to exceed SAAMI MAPs yet is some cartridges like the 45 Colt and 45-70 we do.

    The powder manufactures and loading manuals say not to use below the “start” loads…yet we do.

    Etc., etc. ad nauseum…….

    And here because a manufacture say not to use regular loads in blank cases with enlarged flash holes we are saying the sky is falling and we must ell the king to never drill out flash holes no matter what…….

    My point is when we use a technique what we are ”not supposed to do” according to the “experts” yet stay within the correct parameters for such technique the practice is safe and most often beneficial.

    Drilling out flash holes is one of those techniques.

    The use of drilled out flash holes is safe and beneficial when done with correct parameters. The use of such is to reduce shoulder setback which causes case headspace problems including misfires with rimless cartridges using LR primers with true cats’ sneeze loads. Additionally the use of rimless cases with drilled flash holes also increases ignition reliability (reduces powder position sensitivity) in such loads.

    In this instance of backed out primers in 45 Colt cases would not be a proper use of drilled out flash holes. The case is a rimmed case and has no shoulder so there is no case headspace problem. Also the capacity of the case is really not that large to need drilled flash holes for improved ignition. The OP using Unique should either increase the charge of Unique or use a faster burning powder to solve the problem.

    BTW; using cases with drilled out flash holes in proper cases such as the .308W or 30-06 with “regular cast bullets loads” such a 311291 over Unique, 4198, 2400, 3031 or 4895 at 1500 – 1900 fps does not increase pressure nor cause any other problems. I know this because I have tested such measuring the pressure. There really wasn’t much benefit with such loads over cases with regular flash holes either so their use isn’t necessary. However if you shoot real “cat’s sneeze” loads, especially in push feeds, with cartridges using LR primers the cases will develop case headspace problems resulting in misfires if you do not drill out the flash holes.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  7. #27
    Boolit Master JBinMN's Avatar
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    Thanks oldblinddog & Larry Gibson for taking the time to help out. I will read the whole topic that was offered in just a few minutes & I read your post Mr. Gibson. I am posting this post in both topics since you both were kind enough to do so for the benefit of me and any one else who might have been interested.

    As ya may or may not have seen, I was not "pointing this out to create any hassles, only to try to get clarification for myself & any others who may read about doing it to try an accomplish one thing & then not read about not doing it because it could cause a safety issue..."

    Mr. Gibson, I would not consider that as the "sky falling" & "we must tell the king".

    I have been following a topic that you posted a short time back that addressed your finding that some manuals pressure data using what is considered "normal" loads wer creating overpressure in some of your tests. Did your sharing of that information get considered as "the sky is falling" or " we must tell the king" type of a post? I did not get that feeling when I followed it. You appeared to be letting folks know something that you found that apparently was noteworthy enough to let folks here know about it. Some paid attention & some did not. But, I reckon it was your intention to let folks here know that you had found an "inconsistancy" in the data that was offered by a well known company in the ammunition/reloading/firearms field.

    Well, maybe you don't see what I did as the same, but I saw what I thought was an "inconsistancy" in information & rather than condemn or belittle anyone, I asked for clarification on the issue. I saw one topic where it was OK & another where it was not. Not too much different IMO, than a manual stating a load is safe with pressure , but someone else saying it may not be.

    I really appreciate the efforts anyone has made to clear up "my" confusion on this subject of the enlarged primer holes. I also would like folks to understand my efforts to find out here were motivated by the urge for more knowledge & from what I have understood, that is what this forum is all about. Sharing "correct" information to help out others & so folks don't make mistakes & have things happen that could have been avoided.

    Now, if I am wrong in thinking that way, then perhaps someone could inform me about it thru a PM or something, so that "I" don't create the feeling that the sky is falling in either topic to prevent any hijacking of the subjects presented in each topic.

    I, personally am satisfied with the explanations I have now read & do not intend to trouble anyone else here for info on this particular subject any longer. Of course, I cannot speak for anyone else.

    Thanks again for your posts & help in understanding.
    "If ya don't like my gate, ya don't have to swing on the hinges..." - L. Ackerman ( RIP)

  8. #28
    Boolit Master


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    JBinMN

    My post was not directed at you or anything you said. The "sky is falling and we must tell the king" comment was referencing numerous of the other posts on the "Primers Backing Out" thread stating such as;

    "if a heavy load of smokeless powder is used, a destroyed gun can be the result

    Drilling flash holes should be, only, your last resort to get very reduced loads to work and those cases must only ever used for such reduced loads

    I will not be drilling out the flash hole for any load now that I know this

    absolutely do not drill out the flash hole

    The notion of drilling out/enlarging flash holes started in the distance past. Folks had the idea that with super low pressure loads in bottle neck rifle cases, the pressure was not enough to blow the case should forward to fill the headspace. The theory was that repeated firing of this case, the firing pin blow, would beat the case shoulder against the chamber shoulder, setting the case shoulder back. Over time, this would increase the headspace to the danger point, at least that was the theory.

    The reality was different from the theory, as repeated firings of gallery loads, did not batter the case shoulder back to form dangerous headspace. Enlarged flash holes did not present any kind of danger at this pressure level, but full charge loads did.

    These low pressure gallery loads, did not produce enough rear thrust on the case head to reseat the primers, so these low pressure loads did produce the backed out primers like you experienced. somebody got confused and thought enlarging flash holes was the fix for this, which it is not.

    The business about the advantages of drilling out flash holes, for smokeless powder loads is bogus and I treated it in my post up the thread. It is a dangerous practice, if those cases ever get used for full charge loads
    ."

    I never said you were pointing out anything nor did I criticize anything you posted. I was not referencing you or your posts at all. You were not the OP of the other thread. On this thread my above post simply states what I posted on the other thread. All comments made are not directed at you. My response above was not in response to anything you posted here or on the other thread. Please don't take it personally.

    BTW; my posts made on "the over pressure" thread were based on actual tests and factual test results of the product mentioned. They were not based on suppositions of what might happen.
    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 10-28-2017 at 12:46 AM.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check