PMC 7.62x51 M80 ball

[AbitNutz]

So I saw a deal at SG Ammo and I thought I'd take a chance. it was $179.17 for 460 rounds of 7.62x51 147 grain.

It's M80 ball made by PMC in the 1980's.

Brass case
Boxer primed
Non-corrosive
Bi-metal jacket so it is magnetic
lead core
Packed in 23 boxes in a M2A1 metal ammo can.
Shipping was $18.00

Has anyone tried this stuff? It's about the same price as the Berdan primed Malaysian 7.62x51 that's floating around.

I'm hoping the brass is decent enough to reload. I have so many 308's that I must care and feed.

[WJP]

I've had good luck with pmc as a whole and the 308 brass reloads have been fine. I haven't shot the 308 factory stuff though just reloaded the brass.

[LAGS]

I still have 6 or 7 boxes of the PMC M80 I bought when I bought my HK 91 back in 79.
I liked the stuff, and it was Boxer primed.
I am still reloading the cases from the rest of the lot of ammo I bought at the same time.
Some have had like 15 reloads in them.
5 standard loadings, then I deligate them to slightly Reduced or Cast bullet loadings

[AbitNutz]

You'd be a pretty odd racist to prefer PMC over Malaysian ammo. PMC is, in fact, a giant company....a giant Korean company. Isn't it funny how people now feel the need to defend themselves over something that needs no defence?

I prefer IMI ammo over almost all others...what does that say about me? Not much. It does say a great deal about Israeli ammo I think.

[Speedo66]

For what it's worth, I bought some of the Malaysian ammo from AIM Surplus, found it to be good accurate ammo. Not reloadable, but I don't reload that caliber and thought it was a good deal at 35 cents a round.

[AbitNutz]

I would have gotten the Malaysian stuff but the PMC was only a couple of cents more an boxer primed. I still worry about the bimetal jacket wearing my barrels...but I guess 460 rounds spread over half a dozen rifles won't do too much damage. Especially if it's just mental damage.

[jsn]

I've always had concerns with PMC ammo. I have some 44 Mag brass with orbiting moons for primer flash holes, some of the PMC 5.56 has PSD headstamps, and I have some 12 gauge made in Italy clearly marked "FOR 20 GA. ONLY". That said, I have some PMC 308 brass that I believe is indestructible.

I was involved in some machine gun shoots a few years ago, the belted Malaysian brass 7.62x51 in 200 round ammo cans was just fine. It was the steel cased stuff that was breaking extractors, etc. and causing breakdowns on the lines. Containers of the Malaysian 7.62x51 were said to be selling for $.03-.04/round back then.

[AbitNutz]

I got the ammo can full of ammo. It's a nice steel military 7.62x51 ball ammo can, the kind you're now used to paying 20 bucks for. There were 23 packages of 20 rounds inside. I inspected them all and they weren't even tarnished much. No corrosion at all in any way shape or form. Of course, that doesn't say how they'll shoot but I'm cautiously hopefull...

The jackets are magnetic, that never makes me happy but I have had 5 or so rifles I can spread them around in so if there is any damage, mental or not, it won't be much.

[Multigunner]

Years ago there was a thread on a blown up FR8 rifle. It was mentioned that the KABOOM was caused by defective PMC 7.62 NATO ammunition. Never heard anything more about it but I'd check product safety recall lists for the headstamps of any known or suspect bad batches. It pays to take the extra steps some times.

Years before that a very bad batch of Santa Barbara 7.62 was found to have a percentage of cartridges that generated 68,000 PSI and caused damage to a number of rifles. An even worse batch of CBC ammo was the subject of ongoing lawsuits at the time.
I just don't trust non US surplus ammo these days.

[AbitNutz]

Does anyone shy away from the bi-metal jackets? The PMC is magnetic, only the jacket, not the core. The core is lead. I have read so many pros and cons about it I don't know what to believe any more.

[Larry Gibson]

Soft steel jackets with a proper copper coating are no harder on barrels than their pure copper jacketed counterparts. I've shot a bajillion of them in '06, 7.62x51, 7.62x39, and other milsurp cartridges over the years w/o any additional harm. Our military has run numerous tests and find them fine to use. The military tests showed flame temperature of the propellants had much more to do with barrel erosion than did the jacket material. That's why probably 50+% of '06 M2 bullets and 7.62 M80 bullets have the soft steel jackets. If you look at a couple of those tests (I believe they can be found on the M14 forum) note the tests were run using MGs and full auto fire so the barrels got pretty hot.

If you don't want to use them please send to me........

[vzerone]

I'm going to give Larry's post an Amazon 5-star review. He's correct on this and it's about time the myth of steel jackets wearing your barrel out is put to rest.

[Multigunner]

When speaking of steel jackets one should take the metallurgy of the barrels into consideration.
Modern MG barrels are bore oil hardened at minimum and chrome lined with stellite inserts that extended into the throat in many cases. The standard M-14 bore is hard chrome lined.
Some older tech or less expensively made and treated barrels might not fair so well with steel jacketed bullets. I wouldn't use them in my near pristine and uncommonly tight SMLE bore, if it was a well worn or oversize beater barrel I wouldn't care as much. I suspect steel jacketed bullets might even serve to iron out surface imperfections.

Some degraded 7.62 ammo I tried breaking down for components was so far gone the gilding metal peeled off the jackets exposing the steel jacket. I discarded those.
That was the batch with powder that smelled like cat urine and dissolved the steel powder can I put it in into red brown dust.

[trapper9260]

How dose PMC ammo of 7.62x51mm to LC ammo.Dose it shoot the same as the other? Like you got your rifle shooting with the LC and want to try PMC .Just wonder about it .

[AbitNutz]

I'd like to see a test done to see how a 416R stainless barrel that has been finished in Black Nitride would hold up...Do a comparison between:

1. High carbon steel barrel
2. Chrome lined barrel
3. High end stainless barrel
4. Black Nitride high carbon steel
5. Black Nitride high end stainless

I would be really interesting to see which would see the most wear.

[Larry Gibson]

I'd like to see a test done to see how a 416R stainless barrel that has been finished in Black Nitride would hold up...Do a comparison between:

1. High carbon steel barrel
2. Chrome lined barrel
3. High end stainless barrel
4. Black Nitride high carbon steel
5. Black Nitride high end stainless

I would be really interesting to see which would see the most wear.

If you're going to do a side by with those barrels comparing a copper jacketed vs a soft steel copper plated M80 bullet in 7.62 NATO chambering to sufficient wear you would need 10 rifles, several shooters, a bit of time and it would only require 75 - 100,000+ rounds of ammo. That's just assuming 7,000 - 10,000 rounds per barrel.

All it would take is $$s.......think I'll let someone else try and just watch.......

[AbitNutz]

That's why I said "I'd like to see a test done"....not by me

[Larry Gibson]

In my past testing, which in some cases has been quite extensive, I've been told what I "ought to do" and how I "ought to test". Those making the suggestions or attempting to discredit the testing I did really had no idea what their suggestions actually entailed. That's why I'm with you......I'd also like to "see the test done".....by someone else........The gvm't/military arsenals had the means; the rifles/machineguns, ammunition, ranges and personnel. I doubt if even the big ammunition makers would undergo such testing unless the gvm't paid for it.

[AbitNutz]

We know that chrome lining pretty much eliminates corrosion but do we think it does anything for barrel wear?

What about Ferritic Nitrocarburizing (Black Nitride)? Does that actually help barrel wear?

[10-x]

Gee, have bought and shot lots of PMC ammo in 03's, M1' s, .30 Carbines and M1 A's not to mention a 98 Mauser with .308 barrel. O problems. Bought some May-lay 7.62, fired it in M1 A and AR 10, no problems. Grouped vey well.Cleaned well after May-lay as unsure of its composition. IIRC, PMC is Patton Morgan Company, no idea where the name came from since it used to be part of rev moon' s empire. Their machine shop somewhere in Korea has a VTL with an 100 meter table!!! Love to see ii working.