9mm is very annoying

[edctexas]

If its a "polygonal rifling" barrel, you can get keyholing if the boolit is too small or too hard. The boolit must obturate and fill the barrel rifling. Too low a pressure might do the same with that rifling. I've seen this in 2 H&K pistols and 1 Glock.

Ed C

[vzerone]

I've had 9mm dies for years, loaded some with jacketed bullets for Brn HPs, P-38s, S&Ws ect.
Nothing outstanding factory dupes. 9 mm became so cheap a long time went by that I didn't load
any. Then I got a Hp comp a few years ago and started shooting it a good bit. Gun shoots about
anything you put in it very well. I bought some cast and a few 9mm molds. I tried these as well
as several 38 bullets. Tried several diameters but try as I might I couldn't get a cast bullet of any
kind to shoot as well as jackets. This is just the opposite of any other gun I have loaded for. My
Casting has been mainly handgun or the older LV cals, and a few big bore modern cartridges. I
still have not found a cast load that preforms in this pistol. I have had buddies secret cast loads
preform the same as mine. They swear by them and have targets to proove it. I have given up on
Cast for it.Attachment 205935

I've seen muzzle brakes affect cast accuracy on rifles that shot really good with jacketed. Can you take that comp off and shoot it? If so retry your cast. I talked to some engineers on my muzzle brake cast problem and they said it's very well possible that with the gases trying to go all kind of way to get out the ports that it may very well be affecting the cast bullet. With your comp the gases are going to escape mostly up right? You gettting any kind of leading or build of anything in that comp especially on the inside of the exit orfice?

[GhostHawk]

For me every time I had keyholing in 9mm going from .356 to .358 or larger solved it.

Instantly. And groups went from shotgun patterns to better than FMJ factory rounds. Tighter pattern, closer to POA. But that is just my experience. YMMV.

And I did not do it for a glock. I did have exactly that problem with a Hipoint C9 and a Handi rifle stubb barrel.

My Hipoint carbine never cared. It will take them big or small, spits em out all the same.

Mostly my alloy was 8-10 bhn range scrap with 1% tin added. Red Dot from 3- 4.5 grains, no issues or changes with power. Only bullet size.

I'm using the .38/.357 125 gr rn/fp 6 cavity. Bullets rain, feeds in all my 9's. My .357 mag is another handi rifle single shot so no issues there either.

If a .358 loaded won't seat you may want to either open up the throat a little bit. Or try a different barrel.

[wulfman92]

Since you are using the Lee FCD, humor us and pull a bullet with kinetic puller and give us a measurement of the pulled bullet. It is likely that the FCD is sizing down the bullets in the cases and you are shooting undersize bullets, regardless of what size they are when seated. Even if you are using .357/.358 boolits, they are likely. 356/.355 after crimping.

I'll try to do this. Don't have any loaded at the moment.

[wulfman92]

keyhole is a stabilization problem. usually means the bullet is not spinning fast enough to stabilize. what is your bullet length and barrel twist.. 3.0gr clays sounds like your probably well below 900fps, maybe even around 800fps-850fps give or take. might not be fast enough to spin it fast enough to stabilize.

I use a KKM barrel that is the standard Glock 34 length. 5 inches, I believe.

[Mauser 98K]

It's not a twist rate problem, 9mm Glocks are close to 1 in 10.

too low a velocity might be it then.. if it is tumbling it is not being stabilized no matter what twist it is, it is just the physics of the critter.. a stable bullet spins at a fast enough rate to where the gyroscopic forces lock it into a point forward position. a lack of these gyroscopic forces and the bullet is allowed to pitch and yaw in flight as there is not enough gyroscopic forces to lock it in position. the only other reason for a keyhole would be if the bullet was clipping something on its way out of the gun thus causing it to tip from the direction of the obstruction and this would give it a backwards or forwards spin component and cause a keyhole.. there are no other causes for a keyhole, it is either stabilization or obstruction.

as for the sizing of the bullet.. i have seen many guns that were suppose to be 9mm have a .357 barrel. why they did this is beyond me. while going up to a bigger size would help accuracy as more of the bullet would be engaging the rifling and the bullet would be more true to the bore it does not really do much for keyhole unless the bullet was not engaging the rifling and just skirting the tops of the rifling meaning no spin or inadequate spin. the only way a larger diameter would help with upping the velocity and pushing the bullet faster to where it would stabilize would be if it had a lot of blow by of the gasses from inadequate sealing in the barrel causing the bullet to drop below the threshold of being stable.

to see if the bullet was being fully engaged in the rifling you can catch one of the bullets in a bucket of water and look at the rifling groves. it will also allow you to look at the base of the bullet and see if it looked melted.. if there are good indentations where the rifling is then it is not going to be rifling engagement related..

[44MAG#1]

Have you tried it with the stock Glock barrel? If you havent I would try it to see if it would group. Lets dont go through the no lead in Glock barrels etc..
Keep the barrel clean. My M30 has the cleanest barrel after cast Ive ever seen in a 45 Auto.

[Idaho45guy]

I recently bought a 9mm Shield that has been disappointing so far. I can seat the Lee 125 RF to 1.06 in the other nines I have, but this one won't chamber them longer than about 1.00. Needless to say, accuracy is not great, but then it isn't great with any jacketed bullets I've tried either. I realize this gun is not meant for 25 yard accuracy, but my M&P .45 is a tackdriver with everything. The best group this shield has produced is around seven inches. That is not "interesting."

I bought a Shield PC 9mm and it wouldn't group better than 10" at 25yds. I discovered a major machining flaw on the barrel. Sent it back to S&W and they took two months to send it back. New barrel had a flaw as well and grouped about 8" at 25yds. Sold it and swore off S&W until they get their act together.

This was their "good" barrel...

Attachment 205954

[BUCKEYE BANDIT]

This is what solved my issues with 9mm .http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...32egidc58rpnk1

Hello all,

Here is my 9mm casting story. Started off the spring of '17 buying a Glock 34 and wanted to shoot a little IDPA with it. I've reloaded enough 9mm to supply a small army, but moved to casting the projectiles for the obvious savings. Got myself a Lee 6 cavity 124 grain truncated cone tumble lube mold simply because my brother had good luck with it. WHAT A MISTAKE. I pushed them out with 3.0 grains of Clay's and used Smoke's powder coat in lieu of lube . You'd think I'd be a locksmith by trade with all the keyholes I had to deal with. Well some of us learn slower than others, so I kept trying to figure something out. Nothing like keyholing at a match and looking like an a$$hole! I also was blessed with a bouncing baby boy this June, so my time to diagnose the situation properly was limited as well. As time went on I bought a Lee 6 cavity 120 grain truncated cone with the lube groove. Improved my situation greatly, very accurate. Still have some dinking around to do with it. I've learned that if I bell my case too much to get the lead boolit in and not swage it down, that it will make my plunk test fail. Not really looking for advice, but I'll sure take some if you share it. Figured I'd share my life story to finally have a post!

Good Day

[wbrco]

I've had 9mm dies for years, loaded some with jacketed bullets for Brn HPs, P-38s, S&Ws ect.
Nothing outstanding factory dupes. 9 mm became so cheap a long time went by that I didn't load
any. Then I got a Hp comp a few years ago and started shooting it a good bit. Gun shoots about
anything you put in it very well. I bought some cast and a few 9mm molds. I tried these as well
as several 38 bullets. Tried several diameters but try as I might I couldn't get a cast bullet of any
kind to shoot as well as jackets. This is just the opposite of any other gun I have loaded for. My
Casting has been mainly handgun or the older LV cals, and a few big bore modern cartridges. I
still have not found a cast load that preforms in this pistol. I have had buddies secret cast loads
preform the same as mine. They swear by them and have targets to proove it. I have given up on
Cast for it.Attachment 205935

My HP slugs at .358 - try bigger bullets.

Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk

[Walt]

too low a velocity might be it then.. if it is tumbling it is not being stabilized no matter what twist it is, it is just the physics of the critter.. a stable bullet spins at a fast enough rate to where the gyroscopic forces lock it into a point forward position. a lack of these gyroscopic forces and the bullet is allowed to pitch and yaw in flight as there is not enough gyroscopic forces to lock it in position. the only other reason for a keyhole would be if the bullet was clipping something on its way out of the gun thus causing it to tip from the direction of the obstruction and this would give it a backwards or forwards spin component and cause a keyhole.. there are no other causes for a keyhole, it is either stabilization or obstruction.

as for the sizing of the bullet.. i have seen many guns that were suppose to be 9mm have a .357 barrel. why they did this is beyond me. while going up to a bigger size would help accuracy as more of the bullet would be engaging the rifling and the bullet would be more true to the bore it does not really do much for keyhole unless the bullet was not engaging the rifling and just skirting the tops of the rifling meaning no spin or inadequate spin. the only way a larger diameter would help with upping the velocity and pushing the bullet faster to where it would stabilize would be if it had a lot of blow by of the gasses from inadequate sealing in the barrel causing the bullet to drop below the threshold of being stable.

to see if the bullet was being fully engaged in the rifling you can catch one of the bullets in a bucket of water and look at the rifling groves. it will also allow you to look at the base of the bullet and see if it looked melted.. if there are good indentations where the rifling is then it is not going to be rifling engagement related..

The theorys expressed make good sense in practical terms. Here is where I'm coming from. The OP is shooting a Glock 34 9mm pistol. I have about a dozen 9mm Glocks, two of which are 34s. All of these 9mm glocks, a couple 9mm 1911s, a Beretta 92FS, and a CZ 75B shoot the load I recommended in my earlier post very well. The Lee 120 TC bullet the OP is using is capable of fine accuracy. I'm using it cast to 12 BHN and sized .356 lubed with Rooster Zambini. Loaded over 3.5 Bullseye in Winchester cases with WSP primers to an OAL of 1.060 and taper crimped to .379" it shoots well in all the above pistols. The only pistol out of the bunch that shoots a bigger bullet better is a 4" Kimber Aegis but it still shoots the .356 bullet well. This is one of those loads that just works. Big barrels may want a bigger bullet but try it just as described first.

[wulfman92]

I appreciate everybody's help. Even if I didn't reply to each comment, they were read and noted. I will try these different things, but am slow about things, so I won't probably update anybody. (You'll have moved on by then!)

Thanks!

[asmith80]

This is what solved my issues with 9mm .http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...32egidc58rpnk1

I really wish NOE still had the Powder-Thru versions of this. It would make my life so much simpler

[ioon44]

One thing that I experienced loading 9 mm that is not mentioned is the ID of the case mouth after full length sizing.
I was using Dillon carbide dies from about 1990 and the case was sized to .350" ID, this would made jacketed bullet loads look like coke bottles and hard cast bullets would be .353" after pulling.

Solution was to sell the Dillon dies and bought new Hornady dies.

[44MAG#1]

How hard we're your "hard cast" bullet is really the question?

[ioon44]

There were 6-2-92 alloy 15 BHN and sized to .357".

[44MAG#1]

Up around 20 to 22 I bet they wouldn't sized down in the case.

[ioon44]

Poor way to solve the problem.

[44MAG#1]

I guess that depends on ones definition of poor.

[35remington]

I have, multiple times, experienced keyholing with cast bullets wherein a change to larger bullet diameter with no change in velocity resulted in a stable bullet.

While the long diatribe posted earlier may sound logical to the guy posting it who posited that it was a "spin rate only" or "obstruction" issue, that is not so. A bit more experience would change his viewpoint, just as it has influenced mine. This is a common finding here.