9mm is very annoying

[RogerDat]

This is what solved my issues with 9mm .http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...32egidc58rpnk1


Attachment 205963

Not 9mm but I switched to using those NOE size plugs inserted in Lee Universal sizing die, 50 rounds of range time with 38 special later I ordered some for other calibers. Think I have them for most if not all now. Those sized plugs provided a clear step up in consistency of case neck tension. I can feel it seating the bullet, I can see it on target. My best pistol rounds are PC & sized with Lee push through sizer, then case sized with the NOE plug during loading. YMMV but that was what I found in revolver and even rifle calibers.

[BUCKEYE BANDIT]

Pretty hard to beat a $6.50 M Die LOL,bought them for everything I shoot cast in and I shoot cast in everything

[JBinMN]

Pretty hard to beat a $6.50 M Die LOL,bought them for everything I shoot cast in and I shoot cast in everything

Must have been some time ago that ya bought them for that price. You can't touch them new anywhere, for less than $20 per caliber from where I looked retail. ( Did not look Evilbay though.)

Must be nice!

[historicfirearms]

I have, multiple times, experienced keyholing with cast bullets wherein a change to larger bullet diameter with no change in velocity resulted in a stable bullet.

While the long diatribe posted earlier may sound logical to the guy posting it who posited that it was a "spin rate only" or "obstruction" issue, that is not so. A bit more experience would change his viewpoint, just as it has influenced mine. This is a common finding here.

I agree and have often found the same thing. Small diameter boolits keyhole while larger did not.

[historicfirearms]

The other thing I hate about 9mm is the huge variation in brass. It's got to be the worst casing as far as dimensions changing between different manufacturers, and there are so many manufacturers. It's a pain but I sort my 9mm brass by headstamp for ammo that I care about accuracy.

[mnewcomb59]

I bought a Shield PC 9mm and it wouldn't group better than 10" at 25yds. I discovered a major machining flaw on the barrel. Sent it back to S&W and they took two months to send it back. New barrel had a flaw as well and grouped about 8" at 25yds. Sold it and swore off S&W until they get their act together.

This was their "good" barrel...

Attachment 205954

My PC Shield sucks for accuracy also. My buddy's normal shield shot about 3" for me at 25 and this one shoots like 8".

Look close at the barrel hood. Instead of having full engagement and a lighter recoil spring, it has a normal recoil spring and one corner of the barrel hood is rounded off so it unlocks easier.

Mine is currently on armslist.

[robertbank]

I have, multiple times, experienced keyholing with cast bullets wherein a change to larger bullet diameter with no change in velocity resulted in a stable bullet.

While the long diatribe posted earlier may sound logical to the guy posting it who posited that it was a "spin rate only" or "obstruction" issue, that is not so. A bit more experience would change his viewpoint, just as it has influenced mine. This is a common finding here.

Exactly! When it comes to the 9MM there seems to be a tendency to over think the caliber. Sometimes I wonder this is because it is a metric expressed round. As of this writing I have at least 15 9MM pistols of various makes and models and none of them experience key holing or leading using WW alloy water dropped (convenience using my setup more than for hardening), sized .357. I run them at around 1K to 1.1K fps using several different powders. I use Dillon sizing and crimping dies and a Lee seating die. OAL 1.10" using Lyman 356402 bullet.

All my guns have twist rates of 1 - 10 (or close due to metric measurements not being exact conversions).

I am not saying there are not exceptions but when it comes to lead bullets in the 9MM .357 seemed to be the cure for any tumbling/leading I experienced. My guns are more accurate than I can shoot but i did notice a slight improvement in accuracy when I changed my factory 1 - 18 twist barrel for a factory 1 - 10 twist in my M&P Pro.

Take Care

Bob
ps I am referencing modern 9MM guns from the US and Europe. pre/immediate post WW11 guns ae a whole different kettle of fish.

[BUCKEYE BANDIT]

$6.50 http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...clef70g38fnh24
.356 x .352 (P) Exp. Plug
[356PCEXP]
.356 x .352 (P) Exp. Plug
.356 x .352 (P) Exp. Plug To use with Lee Universal Neck Expanding Die Turns it in to a true neck expander like a Lyman M-die.

Must have been some time ago that ya bought them for that price. You can't touch them new anywhere, for less than $20 per caliber from where I looked retail. ( Did not look Evilbay though.)

Must be nice!

[JBinMN]

$6.50 http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...clef70g38fnh24
.356 x .352 (P) Exp. Plug
[356PCEXP]
.356 x .352 (P) Exp. Plug
.356 x .352 (P) Exp. Plug To use with Lee Universal Neck Expanding Die Turns it in to a true neck expander like a Lyman M-die.

I see now... You meant the NOE plugs & not the Lyman "M" dies for each caliber.
Much better.
Thanks!

[35remington]

There are a few stickies here and there on the forum about getting 9s to run decently.

[Drm50]

I've seen muzzle brakes affect cast accuracy on rifles that shot really good with jacketed. Can you take that comp off and shoot it? If so retry your cast. I talked to some engineers on my muzzle brake cast problem and they said it's very well possible that with the gases trying to go all kind of way to get out the ports that it may very well be affecting the cast bullet. With your comp the gases are going to escape mostly up right? You gettting any kind of leading or build of anything in that comp especially on the inside of the exit orfice?

This model HP has no Muzzel Break. The piece on end is contoured to match slide, and cover the
Extra long barrel. I guess slide extension might be the name of part

[saleen322]

I was wondering about the barrel and lead bullets until you said KKM barrel-they are top notch in quality and work great with lead. 9mm is also powder sensitive with PowerPistol working the best and WSF a more distant second. If you load some rounds in the 4.5-5.0 range with PowerPistol and it does not group well, it will be a first. Hope this helps.

[tazman]

I guess that depends on ones definition of poor.

I agree with you.
I use range scrap sweetened with a small amount of linotype and water quench from the mold. The boolits come out quite hard. Can't say exactly since I don't own a bhn tool myself, but the ones my friend tested for me were 18-20 bhn.
I size to .358 and load whatever brass I find at the range. I am not picky about headstamps except for the ones with the shelf inside( those get scrapped). I have checked pulled boolits from these cases many times and they never get reduced in size.
I tumble lube with White Label X-Lox and shoot these in several different 9mm handguns. I simply don't get leading and don't have boolits tumble. Accuracy varies depending on the gun in question. Some like lighter boolits, some like heavier. I just feed them what they prefer.
I have tried softer alloys with almost universal poor results even when they don't get reduced in size. Some factory barrels, since they are designed for jacketed bullets, don't have deep enough rifling to grip a cast boolit properly for best accuracy. The harder alloys grip the rifling better and improve that aspect.
The firearms used are Taurus PT92, Beretta 92FS, Springfield Range Officer, Smith & Wesson 929, and a Chiappa 9mm m1 carbine.

[Low Budget Shooter]

Here are the measures I have taken (most learned on this board) that have made my 9mm reloading problems disappear:
-use one headstamp only for consistency; I use Winchester because that was the most plentiful in my brass stash
-use 38 S&W plug instead of 9mm plug in Lee powder-through expanding die
-seat bullet without crimp
-crimp with 9mm taper crimp die, not Lee FCD, only until bullet passes no-push-in test and plunk test
-use NOE 358242 95 grain bullet, which seats very shallow
-use minimum charge from Lyman charts for that bullet

That was the formula that made all my 9mm guns and shooters happy. Now everything works and we have lots of fun.

[Idaho45guy]

Here are the measures I have taken (most learned on this board) that have made my 9mm reloading problems disappear:
-use one headstamp only for consistency; I use Winchester because that was the most plentiful in my brass stash
-use 38 S&W plug instead of 9mm plug in Lee powder-through expanding die
-seat bullet without crimp
-crimp with 9mm taper crimp die, not Lee FCD, only until bullet passes no-push-in test and plunk test
-use NOE 358242 95 grain bullet, which seats very shallow
-use minimum charge from Lyman charts for that bullet

That was the formula that made all my 9mm guns and shooters happy. Now everything works and we have lots of fun.

Excellent post! My first batch of loads was with multiple head stamps, and I think my crimps were a bit too tight. Plus it seems 115gr bullets need a bit more speed to attain accuracy.