Weight or volume BP

[rfd]

... When cartridge guns were brought out. It told you the amount of BP in each cartridge, like 45-70,38-55, 32-20 and so on. ....

and since most of those early cartridges used balloon head brass, you could actually fit in 70 grains of bp for a .45-70, but not with modern solid head brass.

[John Boy]

do you use a scale for it or just measure it by volume? Thanks

You can charge both ways but scale weight is more accurate especially shooting long range - 600yds to a 1000yds

[maxiblu]

Shooting to 500 meters I figure I want everything as identical as I can get it. I weigh each bullet and each powder charge. I would hate to lose a match cause I didn't take the time to make the best ammo I can.

[Dieselhorses]

Depending on what powder you are using, the manufacturer should have a VMD chart referencing the weight of 1 grain to volume. I don't compete but have had much luck with my own powder and for some reason it's more accurate than a few smokeless powders.

[crankycalico]

im curious on this guys, ive always seen it as VOLUME, ie 1 grain of bp equals so many CC by volume...

its how it was done in the old days.. so trying to tell me that the poor SOB in the british army who had to make combustible cartridge was weighing them out on a little pocket scale, instead of the issued measure tube?

have any of you guys who use the scale, ever go back after a while and re weigh those charges to see how much has changed? black powder sucks up moisture, so when its sitting on the table open, its going to weigh more in say 70% humidity then it does in a 30% humidity room.
Some guy named Richard Lee saw that with SMOKELESS powder as well, its why he used volumetric.

[Dieselhorses]

im curious on this guys, ive always seen it as VOLUME, ie 1 grain of bp equals so many CC by volume...

its how it was done in the old days.. so trying to tell me that the poor SOB in the british army who had to make combustible cartridge was weighing them out on a little pocket scale, instead of the issued measure tube?

have any of you guys who use the scale, ever go back after a while and re weigh those charges to see how much has changed? black powder sucks up moisture, so when its sitting on the table open, its going to weigh more in say 70% humidity then it does in a 30% humidity room.
Some guy named Richard Lee saw that with SMOKELESS powder as well, its why he used volumetric.

Depending on what powder you are using this chart might help. >>> http://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm

[country gent]

With some practice a volume measure can be very accurate, if rotary slide or dipper measuring by volume can be very accurate. With most BP cartridges .5 grns dosnt produce the velocity change that .1 in smokeless does.

In the days these firearms were state of the art. Horses were main transportation. A horse can only carry / pull so much and travel. So the loading kit had to be compact and light. As to the above mentioned solider, he traveled on foot so even more so. They probably got very good at producing accurate ammo with very little. Their complete loading tools more than likely fit in a coat pocket if needed.

I weigh charges and for a big match trickle them even. More for the confidence it gives me than anything.

[yulzari]

Measures should be made from a weighed charge of known powder and sized to match the volume of that powder of required weight. Once you have a weighed charge you can thus make a measure to match and measure by volume thereafter, as long as you do not change the powder. So measuring by volume is accurate, fast and easy once you have made the measure from the weighed charge

Powder varies by density and granulation, even by the shape of the grains. Make a change in the powder and your volume measure will throw a charge of a different weight to the original charge. and need another measure made.

I have used a French 'musket powder' and a Swiss sporting powder in the same musket. A given measure gave a charge of @5% more weight in Swiss powder. Added to this the French 'musket powder' was @ 15% weaker than the Swiss (and much dirtier fouling). So the same measure gave @ 1/5 less force for one against the other.

So. loading by volume is the simple, easy and fast way as long as you have done the preparation work first for your chosen powder. This is why I have a box of discarded assorted brass cartridges that I can cut to make a variety of measures for a variety of powders for a variety of charge weights.

If you keep and carry your powder in non sealed containers, that will let the powder change with changing ambient humidity, then there is no way to get a truly consistent charge. Personally I doubt if it makes that much difference. I once looked at the effect of moisture in a burning charge and decided 1. Life is too short. 2. It might hinder combustion through cooling or, it might aid expansion as the water boiled into steam. 3. Life is too short.

[Chill Wills]

Yulzari - good post.

Rather than using a scoop of the correct size, which works just fine, most of the regular handloaders of BP just set up the powder measure based on scaled data.

[country gent]

I use a belding and mull measure for BP normally. Its basically a adjustable dipper set with a scale. The other measure I use is a lymann 55 BP measure. again volume measure set with a scales. One thing I prefer with the B&M measure is tubes can be made and left set for next use.

[martinibelgian]

Pretty weird some peole seem to think that moisture absorption will only change weight, not volume. Also, I do remember someone posting results of a test letting powder lie for weeks in contact with abient air (swiss), to conclude that the weight change was negligible. IW, no moisture absorption. Might be different with other powders, but...

[indian joe]

im curious on this guys, ive always seen it as VOLUME, ie 1 grain of bp equals so many CC by volume...

its how it was done in the old days.. so trying to tell me that the poor SOB in the british army who had to make combustible cartridge was weighing them out on a little pocket scale, instead of the issued measure tube?

have any of you guys who use the scale, ever go back after a while and re weigh those charges to see how much has changed? black powder sucks up moisture, so when its sitting on the table open, its going to weigh more in say 70% humidity then it does in a 30% humidity room.
Some guy named Richard Lee saw that with SMOKELESS powder as well, its why he used volumetric.

You can call it equivalents or whatever you like - that dont change the FACT that grains is a measure of weight NOT volume. No amount of blackpowder mythology or "how they did it in the olde days"will change that basic fact

Yeah cut a volume measure that works for your rifle - weigh the contents - THEN - you have a grains by weight load that you can measure in a volumetric charger of some sort - but if you change from Swiss brand to Goex brand powder, its very likely you now have less grains weight from the same volume measure. Sneaky dudes those Swiss eh! more of their powder goes in the same space so we can get a bit more punch from the same measure - but - your one pound can got empty a bit quicker too.

[greenjoytj]

I have shot muzzle loaders for many years and we always just use a measure for loads,in BPCR do you use a scale for it or just measure it by volume? Thanks

Not me I’ve always weighed my charges. The weighed charges are stored in small plastic tubes with tight fitting caps. I take with me enough prefilled tubes to get the job done range practice or hunting.

[Huvius]

I have shot muzzle loaders for many years and we always just use a measure for loads,in BPCR do you use a scale for it or just measure it by volume? Thanks

I think we have strayed a bit from the OP...

As many here have stated, BPCR or any target shooting for that matter rely on consistency to be successful.
The way a high level of consistency is achieved is by weighing a particular charge of a particular powder of a particular lot.
That is why the long range boys do it this way. It really matters at those ranges.
Now, when talking of the poor gents on the battlefields of the 19th Century (regarding ML arms) their standard distance of engagement was quite close and their casualty producing target quite large so throwing a volume of powder was more than sufficient for the accuracy required.
That said, the armies of any given country were supplied with a standardized powder as well as standardized measures so there is some built in consistency there. At least there was consistency in powder and charges even if there wasn't in the actual bore measurements of their muskets and rifles!
Interestingly, I once took apart an original BPE cartridge that had 80grs of powder by weight.
Lo and behold! That same charge was exactly 80grs on an old brass single charge powder measure I have.

[Dieselhorses]

The following is interesting and may or may not shed some light.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_powder_substitute