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Thread: Moving up to 45-70 since 356 Win is a failure with cast?

  1. #41
    Boolit Master
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    Back on topic. I just started loading cast for my 45-70. I chose the Lee 340gr and am very happy with it. The load is not mild but still kicks less than a 300gr HP at 2100 fps. (Marlin 1895 Guide Gun)

    I'm sorry but I simply don't see a smooth transition for your wife here. She's going to have to withstand a lot more recoil and deal with a lot more trajectory.

    I say buy her a box of bullets and let her continue on.

    Motor

  2. #42
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by edctexas View Post
    That main gun doesn't leave much of the deer to eat! I have chased deer on a range with the 0.50 spotting rifle. Pretty hard to hit one unless it stays still long enough. The booms did not really scare them like I thought they would.
    PS we did not kill any deer. Against army rules and range rules. We did get in trouble for scaring them.

    Ed C
    That spotting round would have over-penetrated anyway. I'd suggest you didn't scare the deer, but rather edumacated them a little. That would have been my line of defense anyway.

    On a lighter note, I had occasion to witness a pot bellied pig join up with a 17# 2.75" FFAR one day not far from Chu Lai. Weren't much left for the mess kit and that's a fact.

    The 1895 Marlin CB was a fine gun when introduced, what with the Ballard rifling and such. It would spit out 510 gr paper patched lead easy at 1600 fps and with minor courage wander up close to 1800 fps. I did not find the recoil objectionable, but a lady probably would. The accuracy was a stunning suprise; sub MOA at 100 yards most days of the week and usually twice on Sunday.

    Put me in the "buy another box of bullets" camp.
    I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.

  3. #43
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have a real nice little compound bow that i'd be happy to swap for any of those rifles all tuned up and ready to go and it only has a 90 pound draw weight! She could get off'n the porch and actually go huntin'! and you may even make it to the end of the driveway before she gets it pulled back!
    Then again if she aint scared of a 45-70 with a 500 gr. boolit goin 1500-1700 fps you make not make the end of the hallway, then if she finds out where her favorite rifle went my days may be numbered too! Buy the Lady a box of bullets! It aint your rifle anyway, Tightwad!

  4. #44
    Boolit Master

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    so does anyone really think the 356 Win is a failure?
    one guy with one bullet in one particular rifle ain't much of a sample.
    ..

  5. #45
    Boolit Master
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    Well if demand is any measure it's a failure compared to the .30-30. Application is another story I suspect.
    I have danced with the Devil. She had excellent attorneys.

  6. #46
    Boolit Master Harter66's Avatar
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    Being as it only shares brass with with a couple of obscure European work around the laws/drilling cartridges and unlike the deceased 25,30,32 Rem you can't just make it out of a cousin or extrude it down or swage it up , yeah it is kind of a flop .
    As a 35 Remington magnumized it's pretty impressive and I'd say a great success .

    A rimmed 308 case even with a whole family of cases is either insanity or genius , it should have been genius in countries where the law says no military cartridges like Italy .
    Insane here where the 308 is so available and found on the shelf in nearly every caliber from 22-45 .

    The twist may be the caliber killer for the OP . My 14 twist is very happy around 2100 fps with a 35-250 .
    Many 35 rifles are 12s and you may have to step up to an even heavier bullet to compensate for the lower MV .......the 200,225 and 250s don't have any trouble making holes in stuff . Mine will punch an inch of plywood and a 1/4" of cold rolled steel at 100 yd so I suspect even one of the fabled armored eastern whitetail would be greiviously injured by any hit between the base of the skull and the 8-9 rib .

    It's a soft cast bullet it doesn't have to be going mach 2 to open up, 1.5 is plenty .
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

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  7. #47
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    Pretty sure you can make them out of 444 marlin brass though you may need to turn the rim. Before I sold mine I had 350 rds of brass, several fired 10 times with no primer stretching. It is a lever so you are more susceptible to brass loss while hunting but that is that. Many guns will chamber and eject 358 brass though it is rimless.
    I had accuracy with 180-250 gr bullets.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  8. #48
    It is very easy to make 356 win from Marlin 444 with a Redding Form and Trim die. Requires no trimming of the rim.
    .358 Win, 7mm Express, Marlin 336ER 356win

  9. #49
    Boolit Master
    dragon813gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beerd View Post
    so does anyone really think the 356 Win is a failure?
    one guy with one bullet in one particular rifle ain't much of a sample.
    ..
    No, it's not a failure. It's another great cartridge that's looked over. It's perfect for lever guns. Who doesn't want a 358 Winchester that can be fed from a tube? But even the 358 is over looked by most. There are so many cartridge options it's ridiculous.

    I have a converted Marlin that will feed converted 308 LC brass. But I use 356 brass for hunting. If I didn't have it I wouldn't hesitate to use the converted brass. I've also formed if from short 444 brass. Didn't have to do anything to the rim.

    There is a long list of great cartridges that are either gone or getting there. A lot of this is driven by people's short attention spans. It's also from people not reloading. So when they can't buy ammo they move onto something they can buy ammo for.

  10. #50
    Boolit Master Tenbender's Avatar
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    I have a good 300 gr. gc load. Pm me if you want it. I moved up to 370 gr. hollow points.

  11. #51
    Boolit Master DonMountain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Oak View Post
    It is very easy to make 356 win from Marlin 444 with a Redding Form and Trim die. Requires no trimming of the rim.
    I bought a bag of brass when I bought the 356 rifle, maybe 500 of them or so. And I also discovered that the rifle will shoot converted 308 brass just fine also. Looks to me like Winchester designed this rifle and the 307 Win rifle I have to shoot the rimless cases as I have fired many time my cast bullet loads in 308 cases out of the 307 rifle without any problems.

  12. #52
    Boolit Mold
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    If your wife is going to be shooting around 200 yds the 356 is the better choice. It is much flatter shooting than a 45-70 by over 2 inches in arc. Any shot closer, say around 75-100 yds will hit about 6 inches high with 45-70. She would need to be familiar with BDC scope or good old Kentucky windage.
    Women in our family do rather well with 30-30 or .308 and lyman 174 gr. GC or just powder coated no GC. 200 yds is not a difficult shot for anyone familiar with their rifle and just how tough are the deer where you are. I've killed a many with a 22 LR back when we hunted to eat.

  13. #53
    Boolit Master


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    Why are you asking us? If your better half has been putting venison in the freezer on a regular basis for the last several years with her rifle ask HER! I may be a confirmed bachelor but I think I'd load whatever she thought was best.
    Last edited by TXGunNut; 11-04-2017 at 10:44 AM.
    Endowment Life Member NRA, Life Member TSRA, Member WACA, NRA Whittington Center, BBHC
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  14. #54
    Boolit Master taco650's Avatar
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    This is one of those "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" situations.

  15. #55
    Boolit Master pmer's Avatar
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    Yeah the .356 Win. leaves a lot to be desired. Deer are getting tougher and have a snarky attitude about 30 and 35 cal. lever actions.

    My 356 was shooting flyers to the right...oops that was a loose scope mount.
    Makes a grey cloud of lead...oops that was too much H335, that boolit might still be flying.
    Made me put a scope on sideways which is very confusing.

    The problem with a 45-70 is that it's not a 375 H&H.
    Recent cast boolit hunts:
    doe, Accurate Molds 45-300G in a 50 cal. muzzle loader
    buck & doe, Accurate Molds 36-225AG Model 94AE
    Russian Boar Accurate Molds 46-405A Marlin 45-70

  16. #56
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Don't mess with Mama's rifle.
    I got the hairy eye for upgrading the scope on my wife's .250 Sav Sako. A couple of deer later she got over it. Then I suggested switching to 100 gr bullets from the 87 Speers. She asked if they would make dead deader and I didn't have an answer. She told me to load 100 rounds of 87s and leave her gun alone. I put her in her place by saying "Yes, dear".

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check