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Thread: Moving up to 45-70 since 356 Win is a failure with cast?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master DonMountain's Avatar
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    Moving up to 45-70 since 356 Win is a failure with cast?

    After following the thread about the failure of cast lead projectiles in the Winchester Model 94 Big Bore in .356 Win that my wife has been using for years for deer hunting, I am going to move her up to a Browning 1885 in 45-70, but don't have much time left to develop loads before deer season. I have two RCBS molds for this round. Both of them gas checked with one a 300 grain and the other one a 500 grain. Both of them flat nosed for good deer killing power. So, which one would give her good deer killing power and a couple of hundred yard range? She sometimes sits out on the front porch and shoots the deer down the hill in front of the house out into the soy bean fields.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    300 gr would be good on deer but with not much time to practice
    and develop a load I would keep the range of 200 yds much closer
    I have been using a 425 gr boolit in mine but I practice @ 100 yds
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    just give her back her rifle.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  4. #4
    Boolit Master Traffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runfiverun View Post
    just give her back her rifle.
    What he said^^^
    AKA hans.pcguy

  5. #5
    Boolit Master CASTER OF LEAD's Avatar
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    If it ain't broke why try to fix it. If she has had success with it in prior years , how can reading how much of a failure it is change your mind? I am of course assuming( I know I know assumption ) that she has been using cast boolits prior to your newly found knowledge. Just my .02 - CASTER
    In regards to shooting safety.Until you are ready to fire, keep your booger hook off the bang switch.

  6. #6
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    I would let her shoot what she has been and has been reliable with .. If you must switch go with the 300 grain and yes keep it 200 and below till she has plenty of practice
    I carry a Nuke50 because cleaning up the mess is Silly !!

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  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    356 is a decent cartridge I know I wouldn't want to get shot by one I shoot 45/70 also and it would probably be cheaper to shoot the 356 than go for the 45/70 but that's your prerogative the missus might not be fond of the kick of the 45/70 either.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    So if I'm understanding this correctly; your wife has experience, practice, and confidence in taking big game with this particular Win94 BB.

    But you want her to shoot CB's instead, so you're having her change to a Browning 1885?

  9. #9
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    Reread the 356 thread, find what was done to fix the "failure", buy a RCBS 200 mold or an NOE copy, slug the barrel, size to fit, select a proper alloy and lube. Or let her keep killing deer with jacketed. If you need a bigger gun than a 356 for Deer in the US, well "I'm from Missouri, show me".
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Dan Cash's Avatar
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    Deer: If you can't kill it with the .356, the .45-70 won't get it done either.
    To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, the trouble with many shooting experts is not that they're ignorant; its just that they know so much that isn't so.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master DonMountain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kestrel4k View Post
    So if I'm understanding this correctly; your wife has experience, practice, and confidence in taking big game with this particular Win94 BB.

    But you want her to shoot CB's instead, so you're having her change to a Browning 1885?
    About 25 years ago when I bought the 356, I also bought 500 new, empty cases and one box of 100, 220 grain Speer jacketed bullets for it. And I loaded up all 100 of them and now she is running out. Over the last 20 years I have converted almost all of my shooting to cast lead projectiles. And of course the first molds I bought were for the 45-70, which I deer hunted with using open sights. The 356 has a scope on it so my wife did well shooting it all these years. Recently I put a scope on the 45-70 to get it ready to shoot deer at the longer ranges out over the soy bean fields we have here. Then when the 356 failures came up for long distance shooting, I didn't buy the mold I was looking at (RCBS 220 grain flat nose). Of course I could just buy another box of those Speer 220 grain jacketed bullets and she would be set for another 20 years? She killed the biggest ever buck on our farm at 220 yards from her deer stand with that 356 and Speer bullets.

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    Me thinks our legs are being jerked upon!
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    I do know this......if I tried taking my wife's pet handgun or rifle away from her--or mucked around with her ammo selections that she does well with--my little Spaniard would commence an Inquisition that would put Savonarola in the shade. Only a woman's weight is a more dangerous place to go. I think Ric might have the winning entry, though.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    11 posts before the cat was out of the bag. Well played,,,,,
    More "This is what happened when I,,,,," and less "What would happen if I,,,,"

    "Control the things you can control, maggot. Let everything else take a flying (leap) at you, and if you must go down, go down with your guns blazing."- The Dark Tower, Steven King


  15. #15
    Boolit Master DonMountain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9.3X62AL View Post
    I do know this......if I tried taking my wife's pet handgun or rifle away from her--or mucked around with her ammo selections that she does well with--my little Spaniard would commence an Inquisition that would put Savonarola in the shade. Only a woman's weight is a more dangerous place to go. I think Ric might have the winning entry, though.
    Ever since I got married she has hunted deer with that rifle because it was light for her to carry, easy to work, had a pretty good Leopold scope on it, and just "fit" her well. But all of these years I also read lots of articles about the "best" caliber for cast lead projectiles was always the 358 Win or the 356 Win cartridges (basically the 356 is a rimmed 358 and use the same reloading dies). So, when she finally ran out of jacketed bullets, I had my mind set on moving on to cast lead projectiles for it. But since the lead projectiles have some limits that I am willing to live with, and she my not be, I guess I better just buy some more jacketed bullets for it and at some time in the future buy the lead projectile mold and cast them just for my use. That is if she will let me play with "her" rifle. Although I do have another one of these rifles that I bought at the same time as the 356, in 307 Win. I have never fired lead projectiles through that one either. But it doesn't have a scope. Mmmm!

  16. #16
    Boolit Master





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    Buy another 100 jacketed and let her keep killing deer. The cost won't kill you at the rate of expenditure.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonMountain View Post
    [...] I guess I better just buy some more jacketed bullets for it and at some time in the future buy the lead projectile mold and cast them just for my use. [...]
    If you are shopping around for additional quantities of those Speer 220's, feel free to PM me - I have a pretty good stash and could easily sell an unopened box or two.

    Or do I get banned for trafficking in JSP's here on CB ?

  18. #18
    I don't know what to do! Seems like I wasted a good amount of time these past few months putting a load together for my Marlin 336ER to kill the indestructible Whitetail.
    I hope my 12 year old will let me use his 7mm-08 that he has piled up deer with shooting 120grn Sierra and 60% loads of H4895.
    .358 Win, 7mm Express, Marlin 336ER 356win

  19. #19
    Boolit Master



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    https://www.natchezss.com/speer-hot-...pfn-50-ct.html

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    If Mama ain't happy, no body happy !!!

    Mike
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  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by waksupi View Post
    Me thinks our legs are being jerked upon!
    Agreed! First thing I thought when I read the OP....

    Sent from my LGLS775 using Tapatalk

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
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HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
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LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check