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Thread: 30-223 and the 30 -223 ingram the same round.

  1. #1
    Boolit Master brstevns's Avatar
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    30-223 and the 30 -223 ingram the same round.

    Are the 30-223 and the 30-223 ingram the same? Reason I ask is I came across a set of 30-223 ingram dies and was wondering if I could use them to load my 30-223 rem ?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    rockrat's Avatar
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    I think they are one and the same. I use a set of lyman 300 BO dies for my 30-223

  3. #3
    Boolit Master brstevns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockrat View Post
    I think they are one and the same. I use a set of lyman 300 BO dies for my 30-223
    I have been doing the same, but thought it would be nice to have the correct set.
    Can you share any loads you use in your 30-223 ? I have one built on a savage axis action.

  4. #4
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    bruce drake's Avatar
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    the 30-223 Ingram has the 45 degree shoulder. The 30-223 Rem Cartridge has a 23 degree shoulder like the parent 223Rem.
    Here is a diagram and info of the twin wildcat 7mmx45 Ingram
    https://press.hornady.com/assets/sit...x45-ingram.pdf
    Last edited by bruce drake; 10-01-2017 at 01:10 AM.
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  5. #5
    Boolit Master

    rockrat's Avatar
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    So , the Ingram is more like a 30 TCU or a 30-223 AI.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master brstevns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce drake View Post
    the 30-223 Ingram has the 45 degree shoulder. The 30-223 Rem Cartridge has a 23 degree shoulder like the parent 223Rem.
    Here is a diagram and info of the twin wildcat 7mmx45 Ingram
    https://press.hornady.com/assets/sit...x45-ingram.pdf
    So I could use these dies to load the 30-223 since the ingram dies will not be touching the shoulder ?

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    Yes, Sounds like you would have a neck sizing die set for your 30-223. Now to resize the case body and bump the shoulder you'd probably need the correct set or come up with a body die. To be honest, I don't think that you are gaining much, if anything, over using the set of 300 BLK dies you currently have.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master brstevns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BK7saum View Post
    Yes, Sounds like you would have a neck sizing die set for your 30-223. Now to resize the case body and bump the shoulder you'd probably need the correct set or come up with a body die. To be honest, I don't think that you are gaining much, if anything, over using the set of 300 BLK dies you currently have.
    I would think the ingram dies would size the neck and the rest of the 30-223 brass, just not the shoulder. Side of brass and base would be resized.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

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    If you do size the body but not the shoulder, you may end up with cases that won't chamber. The brass has to go somewhere and it you size the body at all without sizing the shoulder at the same time the cases may be too long to chamber for you.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    When I look at brass I have seen for the 300 BO, the "rounding" of the corners at the top and base of the neck can make it pretty hard to say what the "neck angle" was.

    The "shoulder" on the 30-223 and 300 BO are probably just barely big enough for the headspacing function.

    Depending on gun, I am not too sure I would worry abount any need for a specific shoulder angle die.

    Round 1: If you gun wont close properly, run the case into your die just enough to get it to close the way you want.

    Round 2 - ??: Neck sizing only for subsequent loads will probably work fine for quite a few loads. Possibly for the life of the case.

    If closing becomes problematic go back & do round 1 over.

    Any "excess working" of brass due to wrong angle will be absolutely minimal.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

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    Ingram dies would size the neck and base of the brass. shoulder area would be untouched. My shoulder on the 30-223 measures .360" and the Ingram is .375". As said, my Lyman 300 BO dies work fine in my bolt gun.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master brstevns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockrat View Post
    Ingram dies would size the neck and base of the brass. shoulder area would be untouched. My shoulder on the 30-223 measures .360" and the Ingram is .375". As said, my Lyman 300 BO dies work fine in my bolt gun.
    So if using the 300 blackout dies to size, you are sizing the neck and top portion of your 30-223 not the complete base area .

  13. #13
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    Preacher Jim's Avatar
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    CH has 30 223 dies commonly referred to a 30x223 Apache.
    Don Apache used this in silhouette, our no bade uses the 40degree on his cast boolits version.
    I built mine with 17 twist kriegher spare barrel for my 30br a fun round

  14. #14
    Boolit Master brstevns's Avatar
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    Gave the 30=223 ingram dies a try today. The brass chambers just fine.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check