Winchester brass substandard?

[reivertom]

I bought some Winchester brass a few years ago and it was all short. Luckily I needed it short because of the bullet I was using. Some were crooked, too. I haven't bought any since.

[oldblinddog]

If it was a red and black bag it was the "new" Winchester brass which is actually made by Hornady.
Notice how the "new" Winchester brass red and black bag matches the existing Hornady brass red and black bag.

What is your source for that information?

[edp2k]

Some source on this board that has a long history of proving that they know that they are talking about

I'm not trying to be cagey, I forgot who it was.
I just tried a global google search and came up with a few hits but nothing that a doubter would call definitive.

Not trying to be smart here, maybe if you search this sight you will have better luck and will post the link to the reference

I recall the reference saying that, the win brass used to come in poly bags with a blue banner on them,
and styled in a certain way. Over the years I have seen hundreds/thousands of these bags of that style and currently
have some in my pile.

Then a "while ago" (a year or 2?) I noticed that the win brass came in a very different bag.
besides colors/graphics, old bag plastic was "soft" and stretchy (polypropylene?)
New bag was red+black and totally different graphics, and a different plastic, more hard, not stretchy.

when I saw it it looked familiar but could not place it.
When I saw the well respected castboolts guy say that hornady now makes win brass it all clicked.
the red+black win mags were the same as the hornady red+black bags.

I found pics for old (blue) and new (red) win bags, but could not find a red hornady bag like I saw in the stores
a year or 2 ago. I only found pics for the very new hornady bag packaging which is very different,
almost like a quality "white" paper bag substrate with a glossy metalized surface coating and printing.

olin (win) outsourced its powder making to Hodgdon years ago.
Outsourced its gun making decades ago (USRA, FN, etc).
do you really think they would not subcontract out their brass?

[iron brigade]

Bought 50 new Winchester 30-06 brass and shot them in my 1903 Springfield, nearly all split at the neck/shoulder junction. Tried some RP case's, not a problem. Some quality control issues there.

[oldblinddog]

Some source on this board that has a long history of proving that they know that they are talking about

I'm not trying to be cagey, I forgot who it was.
I just tried a global google search and came up with a few hits but nothing that a doubter would call definitive.

Not trying to be smart here, maybe if you search this sight you will have better luck and will post the link to the reference

I recall the reference saying that, the win brass used to come in poly bags with a blue banner on them,
and styled in a certain way. Over the years I have seen hundreds/thousands of these bags of that style and currently
have some in my pile.

Then a "while ago" (a year or 2?) I noticed that the win brass came in a very different bag.
besides colors/graphics, old bag plastic was "soft" and stretchy (polypropylene?)
New bag was red+black and totally different graphics, and a different plastic, more hard, not stretchy.

when I saw it it looked familiar but could not place it.
When I saw the well respected castboolts guy say that hornady now makes win brass it all clicked.
the red+black win mags were the same as the hornady red+black bags.

I found pics for old (blue) and new (red) win bags, but could not find a red hornady bag like I saw in the stores
a year or 2 ago. I only found pics for the very new hornady bag packaging which is very different,
almost like a quality "white" paper bag substrate with a glossy metalized surface coating and printing.

olin (win) outsourced its powder making to Hodgdon years ago.
Outsourced its gun making decades ago (USRA, FN, etc).
do you really think they would not subcontract out their brass?

I would never say they "don't". I've been to Hornady and while there I asked face to face if they made their own brass (which they do, of course [and I was the only person on that tour.]). I was just curious as to where you found out. I did a fairly extensive search last night and found nothing that could be called official. I wouldn't even call my answer from Hornady "official". I was looking for something like a press release from either company as conclusive. I don't think that packaging is a good indicator.

While online I saw a reference that said that Joyce Hornady started Frontier in 1965 (iirc), and that was eventually just all combined into Hornady. I also saw a reference (which I doubt) that said that Frontier headstamped brass is/was made by Winchester.

Must be true...it's on the internet...

[salpal48]

Were the Necks Straight prior to working The brass. . If they were > then working It caused the Problem. . Excessive . Neck up In one step can Cause That. Brass will find the weakest point to stretch without support

[aarolar]

Were the Necks Straight prior to working The brass. . If they were > then working It caused the Problem. . Excessive . Neck up In one step can Cause That. Brass will find the weakest point to stretch without support

No sir they were cooked coming out of the bag.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[KCSO]

Per previous posts sent in some 45-70 with primer pockets so loose you could deprime by tapping on the bench. They were lost?? and quickly replaced and never found again.

[JMax]

I have and use Win rifle brass in 30-06 and 7.72x39 without any observed problems. It is and will continue to be my brass of choice ranging from handguns to rifles.

[texassako]

I have found newer Winchester brass to be real hit or miss. I worked with a couple of bags of .45-70 component brass that was decent after cleaning up the case mouth, 7.62x54r that had the shallow primer pockets like S&B brass, and currently going through a bunch of .380 once fired that probably came out of Winchester white box ammo that is pretty nice compared to the other headstamps in the lot. If Hornady is making Winchester .45-70, then it may be short as well (FTX length so to speak).

[waco]

The last bag a WW 308 brass I bought all had double punched flash holes.....
It went back and I was refunded. I bought some Rem. brass instead.

[Drm50]

I have used Win brass since I started loading back in 60s. I used other brands, but only bought
Win, and if necessary Norma. Using once fired brass in necked casings Win held up for more
loadings, Fed 2nd, and Rem last. Having said that I have so much new Old Stock and 1x brass I
haven't bought much new brass in years. Last fall I mounted several scopes on 44 mag rifles and
sighted them in for locals. They all had Win 44mg/ 240g JSp in the White box, must be what
Wally World carries. Anyway the brass is junk. It has that washed out gold color that comes when
the copper content of brass is cut back. This cases brittleness and short case life. The high quality
brass will have that mellow cast to it. Some of the Norma brass has a red cast to it indicating a
higher copper content. I have Savage 222 brass from the 1950s and Herters brass from 60s that
also has that red cast. In today's world of bean counters and huge corporations the trusted name
means very little, it has been reduced to just a name.

[buckshotshoey]

Starline seems to be of good quality. The 45- 70 if of excellent quality. I think I will try it in other calibers I have. Probably won't buy any .223 though. I have older Winchester and Lake City brass coming out my butt!

[quack1]

I would never say they "don't". I've been to Hornady and while there I asked face to face if they made their own brass (which they do, of course [and I was the only person on that tour.]). I was just curious as to where you found out. I did a fairly extensive search last night and found nothing that could be called official. I wouldn't even call my answer from Hornady "official". I was looking for something like a press release from either company as conclusive. I don't think that packaging is a good indicator.

While online I saw a reference that said that Joyce Hornady started Frontier in 1965 (iirc), and that was eventually just all combined into Hornady. I also saw a reference (which I doubt) that said that Frontier headstamped brass is/was made by Winchester.

Must be true...it's on the internet...

Pretty sure the handfull of Hornady headstamped 25 ACP brass I picked up off the floor of the range I belong to wasn't made by them. They were all Berdan primed, never thought to look until I bent the deprime pin on the first one.

[beemer]

I have found newer Winchester brass to be real hit or miss. I worked with a couple of bags of .45-70 component brass that was decent after cleaning up the case mouth, 7.62x54r that had the shallow primer pockets like S&B brass, and currently going through a bunch of .380 once fired that probably came out of Winchester white box ammo that is pretty nice compared to the other headstamps in the lot. If Hornady is making Winchester .45-70, then it may be short as well (FTX length so to speak).

Several years ago I bought a several boxes of Winchester 7.62X54r in the white box for the brass. The country of origin was printed on the box , can't remember what it was but it was made off shore had shallow primer pockets like S&B.

[Bill*B]

A lot of 7.62 NATO/.308 Winchester brass will come up a tad short when necked to .358; often with substantial variations in any given lot. If memory serves, I had better luck with CBC head stamped brass.

[Four-Sixty]

I bought a case of .380 Auto from Starline when I was selling brass about 2-3 years ago. In that case was a hornady headstamped .380 Auto case that was about 1 and a half times as long as it should be and crushed into another case. I am sure Starline has made brass for Hornady.

[vzerone]

Well guess what, Winchester is now making 9mm ammo with forged steel cases. This Guns & Ammo link tells about it, but I believe they are wrong that it is the first steel case ammo manufactured entirely in the U.S. How about the steel case 45 acp ammo for WWII? I believe that to be made entirely here.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/shot-show...sa-forged-9mm/

[lefty o]

lets just try and clear some stuff up. having worked for an ammunition company, and one of my jobs being making rifle brass, i have a little insight. no excuses, like any other job anyone can turn out bad product . as for who makes what brass, the ammo companies make most of their own, but for stuff made less often, oddballs etc, they do sometime buy brass from starline, lapua, norma, or sometimes even from their direct competitors. for something like 30-06, they make it themselves in huge quantities.