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Thread: [B]Load Manual Error......[/B]

  1. #121
    Boolit Master buckshotshoey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    NW Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Dan View Post
    Wasn't making a point about 'cats, just the influences of very minor (?) alteration of the load/s. Cartridge style is largely irrelevant I think, and that means work-a-day cases like the .30-06 likely exhibit the same characteristics.
    I think he was trying to be a smart A.

  2. #122
    Boolit Grand Master

    Larry Gibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Lake Havasu City, Arizona
    He certainly is correct about minor alterations of the load having influences on the load. His example especially with the small capacity case of his 'cat. I found that out a long time ago in '74 when I got my 1st Oehler chronograph with the 22 Hornet, 221 Rem and the 30 Carbine. With such small capacity cases, even in the 223 Rem, it is best to work powder charges up in .2 - .3 gr increments. The same in cartridges up through 30-30 capacity. In .308W or larger up through the "short" magnums .5 gr is a safe increment. Also changing bullets or primers can cause a major change as we have demonstrated with the tests in this thread.

    New reloaders and those without chronographs are well suited to stay within published data from major manuals who actually test their data. Yes, I have pointed out one anomaly here in this thread but that's the only one I've found so far in the last 9 years since I began pressure testing. The data in the Hodgdon, Hornady, Speer, Lyman and Sierra manuals is pretty reliable.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  3. #123
    Boolit Master

    nagantguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Mr. Gibson thanks again for this post from your actual field research with the equipment most of us don't have ; as per out PMs I have backed off my loading of H4350 down to our agreed upon safe window ; the primer pockets on the brass and every aspect of the brass itself that has had 2 firings at what you determined to be potentially an over pressure charge is fine,but these were new cases. Funny thing in the new loading window I found two sweet loads that were not sweet loads during initial testing. The other thing I noted my chronographed velocity at the old near max charge weight was right on the heels of listed max, the new "max" as we discussed in PMs is a full 1.2 grains less and velocity is only slightly lower;70 -72 fps slower... now this is only with chronograph data on 10 of the old near max loads and 5 of the new near max with new Remington and Winchester cases H4350 powder Hornady 178-EDL-x in a ruger Mark 2 in 30-06 with cci benchrest 2 primers.
    The new sweet spot that was not sweet the first time through produced a sub one inch 5 shot group exactly 2.8 inches high of poa at a known 102 yards.

  4. #124
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Canada, Ontario, Durham region
    Quote Originally Posted by williamwaco View Post
    I find that AMAZINGLY interesting. My mentors have always told me than none of the traditional pressure signs could be relied on to keep me safe. The reason is that by the time they appear it is already way too hot. They taught me that these signs appear at about - - - - > 70,000 psi.
    The most accurate statement of pressure sign reading for any home reloader.
    Reading primers for pressure is as accurate as reading tea leaves. By the time the physical pressure signs appear your already way over the SAAMI limit.
    This reminds me of the story I read long ago in a gun magazine about the development of the wildcat 7mm STW. Handloads looks ok, but when lab pressure tested they were found to be to hot. And this was from an experienced handloader.

    I read the the labs the collect data for loading manuals use the minimum spec pressure guns to get the pressure numbers, but the published velocity data is collected from real world off the shelf firearms.
    So the MV would be more in line with what the home reloader would see.
    Last edited by greenjoytj; 10-19-2017 at 09:05 AM. Reason: Spelling

  5. #125
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Not all velocity data is collected from production guns. If one looks at several reloading data book one will see that.
    We Know Mass Cannot Be Weighed But It Has Newtonian Weight And That Is Derived From Kilograms And Kilograms Can Be Converted to Pounds. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed. But How is the kilograms obtained? Can Kilograms Be Weighed? Evidentally Yes It Can. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed So Kilograms Must Not Exist. Funny Isn't It.
    One good thing out of this the next time I'm at the doctors and they want to weigh me I'll tell them mass cannot be weighed.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check