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Thread: Last Military Issue CB?

  1. #1
    Mosin Guy/Forum Sponsor Josh Smith's Avatar
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    Last Military Issue CB?

    Hello,

    What was the last issue cartridge/rifle in the United States to take a non-jacketed boolit? .45-70 and Sharps?

    What about in the world?

    Thank you,

    Josh

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  2. #2
    Boolit Bub
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    38 special

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    I would imagine the 1884 model Springfield trapdoor 45-70. As far as other countries; my guess would be the Remington Rolling Block in ?? caliber. The .38 Long Colt was our last lead bullet military handgun cartridge as far as I know.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master



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    I once heard that some .45ACP were lead nose in WWII, but it wasn't from a substantive source.
    BDGR

  5. #5
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Tex is right, 1884 Springfield .45-70 and the .38 Long Colt revolver cartridge.

    The M1909 .45 revolver and the Krag were always jacketed.

    While .38 Special was a WW2 substitute standard issue lead bullets were only for CONUS, FMJ rounds were sent to combat zones.
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  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    What about the lonely .22? Didn't they issue them to special ops in Vietnam ?

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    The 311284 was designed for the 30US, or so I have seen said many times. Pretty sure Dad was packing LRN in his .38 Smith as an MP in the Corp in the '50's IIRC.
    More "This is what happened when I,,,,," and less "What would happen if I,,,,"

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  8. #8
    Boolit Mold
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    As loaded for issue rounds. Last general issue (as opposed to limited issue/trials rifles)

    US - M1888 Springfield "Ramrod Bayonet" rifle. .45-70
    UK - Long Lever Martini-Henry 450/577
    Fra - M1874/80 Gras 11x59r (not sure if the m1885 Kropacheck made it to general issue, same cartridge)
    Ger - M1871/84 Mauser 11x60r
    Rus - Berdan II 4.2 line (10.75x58r)
    Jap - Meiji type 13 11x60 Murata
    Ita - M1870/87 Vetterli-Vitali 10.35x47r
    A-H - Mannlicher M1886 11x58r

    That's all the major powers in the China Relief Expedition. Lots of Rolling Blocks and Comblains around the world.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Thumbcocker's Avatar
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    Wouldn't those be swaged projectiles?
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  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    22's were FMJ, I still have some

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Do plated soilds count. British 380/200 was a plated lead soild 200gr. I have some from the 70s, they were police ammo but the same as the issue ammo used untill the late 50s.
    be well
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  12. #12
    Boolit Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    There's a Frankford Arsenal box and some ammo for the 1909 on Mc Pheeter's website.
    Looks like lead boolits with bases dated 1911, 1912 and 1913.
    The 725 FPS noted on the box is interesting.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Are you talking "true" cast or "lead boolits"? Thumb cocker makes an excellent point that I was going to bring up. So many people talk about such things as the cast lead minie balls used during the Civil War and paint images of soldiers sitting over campfires using bullet molds. Yes, those who may have brought their own rifles such as some
    Confederates or who brought their own pistols - may have had to cast their own but ammunition was issued and the majority of minie balls were "swaged" on swaging machines at arsenals using lead wire - the same as most imported ammunition.

    I'm not an expert but I would have to believe that if minie balls were swaged during the Civil War, later ammuniton produced at Arsenals had their projectiles produced in the same manner? Not getting"picky" but actually asking if this is true or not. I've seen gang molds over the years advertised as "Asenal molds" - such as for 45 caliber Springfields and even 30-40 Krag. I have often wondered if they are actually "Arsenal Molds".

    So while the question is being addressed - maybe some one could clarify on this as to were those produced during the Indian Wars time period up to the Span Am period actually "cast" or were they "swaged"?

    Thanks!

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    For Denmark all military handguns still used lead bullets until the end of WWII.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    hong kong or china in the 2000s gave their secondary police, typists meter maids and desk riders, revolvers chambered in a round very similar to the 38 smith and Wesson. In the few photos I have SEEN of the ammunition or gun when it came out, one of the loadings used a lead bullet.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by leebuilder View Post
    Do plated soilds count. British 380/200 was a plated lead soild 200gr. I have some from the 70s, they were police ammo but the same as the issue ammo used untill the late 50s.
    be well
    I think the standard issue .38 British revolver cartridge of WW2 used a 170 grain jacketed bullet.
    The original pre WW2 load used a 200 grain boolit and the round was then designated the .38/200.
    There were probably rounds of both types issued at any one time.
    A similar 200 gr police load for the .38 S&W was also available.

    The Germans once threatened to execute some American MPs captured with lead boolit .38 special ammunition in their revolvers. It was legal for MPs to use lead boolits but only in the role of LEO.
    Later on when US MPs had to engage German hold outs in Paris they were issued captured German MP40 and other such infantry weapons to take the place of their Shotguns and revolvers.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    The Haag of 1899 only works if all combatants agree to adhere to it, remember gas during WWI?
    It is a no no but widely used none the less.

    There are many a story of the evil Germans threatening to shoot allies with lead bullets as long ago as WWI.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check