Help me with my smelting please

[lablover]

Casting some boolits last night and had lots of inclusions. Decided to take the batch I was gonna pour and re-smelt it to clean it up more.

After in the smelting pot at around 680-700 deg I fluxed with sawdust and beeswax..Got some crud out and then overtime I stared the pot I got this dark gray/black stuff come to the top. I figured it was more slag so kept spooning it out. Well I was at it for a good 40 min and it would not stop coming up. Here is a link to a short video I did of what is happening.

Question: Is this just still slag or carbon from the sawdust coming up still? I fluxed and removed the sawdust around 4 different time. Do I keep fluxing until it's all gone or am I adding the stuff by adding sawdust and beeswax. Seems to come up more after I remove the sawdust and start to clean the dross off the top.

Not sure how much longer I can stir this stuff till it stops coming up. For all I know I'm cleaning off tin from the top?

Please look at the video and tell me I just need to keep fluxing and cleaning it off. The top looks pretty silver until I give it a good stirring and up comes the light black film.

Look forward to some wisdom .


Here is a link to the video

https://youtu.be/9ZenHrPrNJM

Thanks Gents

Joe

[Rcmaveric]

Could be trapped ash from when you fluxed with the saw dust. Could also be oxides. Flux it with wax and see if it melts back in, if it doesn't then skim it out. Gotta becarefull removing to much oxides you can easily skim out a lot of your Tin and antimony over time. You get a layer of oxides on top and mixing it will make it accumulate quicker because that thin layer of oxide protect the rest of the melt. Molten metals oxide amazingly fast. I don't like mixing without some type flux in there to protect my alloys.

Just flux with saw dust once or stir with a wood branch. Flux a few times with wax. After that pour your molds till about half way done. Flux to clean the bottom and finnish pouring it.

[lablover]

Could be trapped ash from when you fluxed with the saw dust. Could also be oxides. Flux it with wax and see if it melts back in. Gotta becarefull removing to much oxides you can easily skim out a lot of your Tin and antimony over time.

SO just try wax and mix it in, then skim the wax off the top..Roger.

I do know that stuff shows up in my Boolits and it makes me crazy. Does it affect the bullets or accuracy?

[jsizemore]

If you have a flat bottom pot, you need a flat edged scraper like a spatula.

[Rcmaveric]

Honestly I have never had any inclusion in my bullets. But I was reading an article on another thread that says it doesn't and carbon is good for the lead.

[lightman]

SO just try wax and mix it in, then skim the wax off the top..Roger.

I do know that stuff shows up in my Boolits and it makes me crazy. Does it affect the bullets or accuracy?

Don't skim the wax off. Light it to reduce the smoke and stir it in. Try to scoop it so it will go to the bottom while scraping the sides and bottom of your pot. Stir it until it quits burning and then a little longer. Then skim the junk off the top. If you are getting gray looking stuff on top, flux it again. I only use sawdust in my smelting pot. I use candle wax or beeswax in my casting pot.

It could affect accuracy if the inclusion is big enough to change the weight of your bullet or its balance, but probably not.

I flux my smelting pot with sawdust or wood chips several times and maybe once with wax, trying to get the alloy super clean before it sees my casting pot. Some raw material is worse than others!

[D Crockett]

another trick you might try is putting a layer of cat litter on top that keeps the oxidation down D Crockett

[OS OK]

You can stir that pot till the Cows come home and still come up with that little bit of crud...that round spatula will find a new bunch of crud each time it swipes the sides or the bottom of the pot...that crud will cling to the edges...after 3 or 4 stirs just leave it alone and tend to your business...Scrape the pot well when it's empty.

When it's that clean just drop in some wax about the size of a butter bean and call it good to go.

[Yodogsandman]

From the video, I noticed that you didn't scrape the sides and bottom well. I flux three times with sawdust to clean the alloy, lighting it off with a match each time. I stir and stir while scraping the sides and bottom. Then each time gently moving the slag and dust to the edge and lifting it into a metal can. Then I reduce the oxides by using a little wax or old lube. I touch that off with a match, too and stir, stir, stir. Then gently moving the dust to the edge and lifting it into a metal can. Then fill the ingot molds and dump them.

[lablover]

Did another round and scraped with the flat spoon. I use the round one to skim off the top. I took those new ingots and stuck some right in my freshly sand blasted bottom pour and started casting...Much better for sure. Still have some inclusions but not as many and for sure they showed up towards the last 1/4 of the pot. So I stopped. I think I'm figuring out this smelting stuff.....Now, time to start on that 400 pounds I just got. I'll save that for my long weekend next weekend. . I think from now on I will keep the sawdust out of the bottom pour!

Lightman, what is the gray looking stuff..It's very thin and when skimmed makes a little pile? I keep thinking it's tin or something.

BTW, got the smelt a little hotter this time too and I could swear it helped get the crud to the top...Dunno

I appreciate the help so far.

EDIT: Sandman..I did scrape the side and bottom but not in the video..I had a hard time holding the cell phone and focusing on the pot. I will give your method a try.

I have to ask being a newb...What are the oxides from? And using wax get it back into the lead?

Thanks

[kens]

That video looked like nice clean lead.
I think that little bit of stuff that gathers up on top is just oxidation. Its always there, when you heat something to 600 degrees and such.
you can flux it till the cows come home, and you still get oxidation.
If you want to stop it, you have to cut off the oxygen. I use a generous handfull of sawdust, and let it smoke off till it is carbon asd, and leave it there.
I use a bottom pour pot or bottom pour dipper.
If you use a spoon like the LEE dipper, I push the crud to the side and make a spoon pour.

[lightman]

Kens is probably right, it most likely oxides. It comes from heat and oxygen. Before you flux, it could contain some tin. I flux well and usually run the pot before I bother to flux again. I leave about 1/4 pot to aid in the next melt.

We want pictures when you smelt that 400#! We like pictures!

[lablover]

Kens is probably right, it most likely oxides. It comes from heat and oxygen. Before you flux, it could contain some tin. I flux well and usually run the pot before I bother to flux again. I leave about 1/4 pot to aid in the next melt.

We want pictures when you smelt that 400#! We like pictures!

Count on it..I still have to get all that plastic coating off those big ole 70 pound blocks..Ughhhh. I may just throw it in the smelt pot and let it melt off.

I also need a ladle to try some right from the smelt pot into the mold...just to see what happens.

[lablover]

Here is an example...Extreme in what I'm getting on some of my boolits

[Michael J. Spangler]

I'm thinking that's just leftover ash from the sawdust that's in those bullets.
I agree with the gray scum being oxides. The more you stir the mor it oxidizes. Toss in some wax and it will go away.
It's impossible to get the lead perfectly clean especially using wood shavings. There is always something left behind. That's why I do a good scraping and fluxing in my bottom pour with the addition of every batch of alloy. Let it all float to the top and pour from the bottom. Scrape the bottom pour well with a flat bottomed and sided spoon (I ground mine down) and it will help.

[Beagle333]

Every time you go by Lowes or Home Depot, grab a pocket full of paint stirrers. They are nice and square and make good swipers for the sides and bottom of the pot, and if they start making charcoal, that's even better. They are kiln dried, so they won't pop and fizzle (unless you leave em outside to soak up the humidity), and they're free!


(edit for the safety people: As with any wooden item, introduce them to the pot slowly, just to make sure nobody got em damp before you used them. I leave mine out in the shed, but I just put them in very slowly, to make sure any damp spots steam dry before getting submerged.)

[lablover]

I'm thinking that's just leftover ash from the sawdust that's in those bullets.
I agree with the gray scum being oxides. The more you stir the mor it oxidizes. Toss in some wax and it will go away.
It's impossible to get the lead perfectly clean especially using wood shavings. There is always something left behind. That's why I do a good scraping and fluxing in my bottom pour with the addition of every batch of alloy. Let it all float to the top and pour from the bottom. Scrape the bottom pour well with a flat bottomed and sided spoon (I ground mine down) and it will help.

Funny, when I added wax I did notice the gray go away..Then I threw in sawdust to soak up the wax scum on top...Hmmm....I think I have it backwards. I did notice the more I stared the more the gray showed up too. Awesome,

[lablover]

Every time you go by Lowes or Home Depot, grab a pocket full of paint stirrers. They are nice and square and make good swipers for the sides and bottom of the pot, and if they start making charcoal, that's even better. They are kiln dried, so they won't pop and fizzle (unless you leave em outside to soak up the humidity), and they're free!

Thank you sir! Will get some tomorrow.

I will say I'm happy with my driving bands not being rounder over anymore.......wooohoooo

[kens]

Are you using a spoon or a Lee dipper to pour your molds?
that looks like crud from your spoon, or whatever ladle your using.

[runfiverun]

those are oxide inclusions.

you reduce oxides with fire or an oxygen free barrier on the surface of the alloy.
you most likely won't get it all back in and will remove some.
but you can turn the heat down to help keep it from forming.
and not stir your alloy up so much.

most people would flip out to see the 1/4-1/2" of oxides on top of my pots.
but at least they are up there and not in my bullets.