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Thread: blowing powder?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    May 2017
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    blowing powder?

    When I got the lyman bullet handbook I wanted it for data on pistol powders in rifles. Wanted to verify the safety of some of the more popular cast loads for rifles. However, 4th editions "improvement" was the removal of such load data.

    I emailed lyman, 8-30-2107 and got a reply back, dated 9-8-2017. Somewhat lacking in customer service, about those missing pistol powder loads. here is the reply:

    Hello,

    I am sorry, we did not do any testing with the Handgun Powders for the Rifle Cartridges. There are now newer better selections for Rifles so there was no need for us to have to use handgun powders.

    We have no PDF to send out on this information.

    I am sorry for the inconvenience.



    Thank you


    Could anyone here tell me, what those "improvements" in rifle powders are? I don't see any loads for rifle powders that can push a round ball out of a 223 or 308 and go under 1,000 fps.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    315
    I suspect he didn't truly get your question. It happens at work all the time, someone in a hurry to answer questions and they somehow miss the point. He may have meant that with the range of propellant speeds available these days, something can be found to drive cast boolits efficiently, but that doesn't address the use of pistol powders at all.

    I was recently pressure-lapping a .30-30 and was using 311291's and 2 or 3 grains of Universal and all the soft lube I could smear on them, which got them out of the barrel reliably. If you're popping RB's out of a .223 or a .308, I'd start about there and adjust accordingly. I was using pistol primers for this, and even with the 311291's the primers showed only faint traces of normal flattening against the bolt face. No way are these capable of problematic pressure. Just out of curiosity, what diameters are these RB's? I've found it useful to use a .315 or .320 RB cast of wheel weights and backed up by a card wad and a lube cookie in .30 cal's just to get a sufficient wedding band of engagement to prevent leakage and provide accuracy, but my intention was sufficient velocity for small game hunting.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Look for a copy of the 3rd edition of the cast bullet manual.I believe it has some loads with pistol powder.If you can't find a used copy Cornell Publications probably has a reprint.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I don't see any loads for rifle powders that can push a round ball out of a 223 or 308 and go under 1,000 fps.
    And you won't find any loading data for that fps... those calibers are 2500 - 3200 fps depending on the caliber & bullet weight
    http://reloadammo.com/223load.htm
    http://reloadammo.com/308load.htm
    Regards
    John

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    I missed the round ball bit.I doubt if you'll find loading data in any of the cast bullet editions.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    If you need specific data looked up in the 3rd give me a yell. May take me a day or 2 but I should be able to scan it and email it. Preferably one or two calibers not 14.

    I also have a fair amount of experience using Red Dot/Promo in rifles. Start at 4.6 grains in all smaller calbers from .35 down to .223.

    Big bores I have run from 6 to 13 with good results. Including .444 and 7.62x54r.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Hick's Avatar
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    3.5 grains of HP-38 gets you a little under 1300 fps with a 60 grain cast bullet. Lyman Cast Handbook edition 3 has lots of pistol powder loads for 223 Rem.
    Hick: Iron sights!

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostHawk View Post
    If you need specific data looked up in the 3rd give me a yell. May take me a day or 2 but I should be able to scan it and email it. Preferably one or two calibers not 14.

    I also have a fair amount of experience using Red Dot/Promo in rifles. Start at 4.6 grains in all smaller calbers from .35 down to .223.

    Big bores I have run from 6 to 13 with good results. Including .444 and 7.62x54r.
    Never known the 7.62x54 to be a big bore considering its smaller then the 8x57....

    After reading an article on low cost reloading for the .308 win and the .223 Remington using pistol powder and getting 22 lr rifle STANDARD velocity in the 1000-1050 range, it got me interested because even if it was a short range load, a box of 50 would be a fun day off sitting on the back deck popping at woodchucks. The same article had mention of a round ball load that was able to get 6-800 fps in a 30-06.

    For me right now, the only rifle calibers im interested in data for are my 8x57 Yugo mauser, and my .308 Winchester. The pistol powder aspect at least from MY perspective is that looking loosely from the rifle data in the 4th edition of the lyman book, the chamber pressure is essentially the same due to the nature of many handgun powders. But the difference in min and max loads is greater for some of the pistol powders.

    What I mean is, for SOME popular rifle powders you have a 5 or 6 grain difference in max and minimum loads. With some pistol powders, guys here are using 6 grains in their 8x57 and others are using up to 15 grains for "bone crushing on both ends loads"

  9. #9
    Boolit Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    I don't recall seeing any load data for RBs in the 308W in any Lyman manual. Suggest you try Bullseye powder; 1.5 to 3 gr. No filler or wad is used. That will keep you in the accuracy range for RBs. 3 gr will not generate enough psi to expand the case and the primer can cause the shoulder to set back creating headspace problems and probable mifires after a few firings, especially in push feeds. I use dedicated fire formed cases with the flash hole enlarged with a 30 - 28 drill.

    Actually you'll get much better results, especially accuracy, with a Speer or Hornady 32 swaged HBWC or SWC over 3.2 gr Bullseye. The Lee TL314-90-SWC lightly lubed with LLA and sized .311 is what I use. However, any .311 sized cast 32-20 bullet of 85 -118 gr works as well.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    runfiverun's Avatar
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    the 'improvement' was they can now charge 5$ a lb more for 5744.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  11. #11
    Boolit Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    2 grs Bullseye with a .310" RB was my 30-30 squirrel load for years. Outpost sent some .309" Accurate 90 gr flat points that are more accurate AND will feed through the tube magazine- so that's my current favorite. Try the RB load in your .308 I bet you'll like it.
    Best, Thomas.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check