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Thread: Is 9mm Luger another high pressure round that should not shoot Cast?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master DonMountain's Avatar
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    Is 9mm Luger another high pressure round that should not shoot Cast?

    After shooting cast projectiles for the last 30 years or so, I have come to the conclusion that there are certain calibers that do not operate well with cast lead bullets. All of the high pressure "magnum" rifles of smaller calibers seem to fit into this category, like .223 Remington, .243, 7mm Mag, 6.5 Swedish Mauser and 300 Win Mag. Although I "play" with much reduced velocities of cast bullets in these calibers just to see what I can do. My question is, there has been much discussion here about cast lead bullets in the 9mm Luger pistol and all the "problems" it presents. Is this another one of those that should only be used with jacketed bullets for best performance? Particularly if used for a self defense carry pistol?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
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    My 9mm pistols shoot cast boolits just fine. I have 4 semi-autos and 1 revolver in 9mm and all shoot cast well with no issues.
    It is all boolit selection and sizing.
    I will grant that jacketed bullets give slightly better groups but not by a lot.
    357 mag revolvers operate at roughly the same pressure that the 9mm does and lead works fine there also.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    I've found it harder to work out all the details with higher pressure rounds, but it is doable. For 9mm I usually stick with loads around the 25,000 PSI level as opposed to ones above 30,000. In general 9mm is one of the more finicky rounds and just about every other common handgun round is easier to load.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    dragon813gt's Avatar
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    Don't tell my 9s, or the AR15s, they they aren't supposed to shoot cast. I don't want them to know that fact. They are harder to work w/ but it's called "load development" for a reason. If I wanted to strictly follow a "recipe" I would only shoot jacketed.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master Reddirt62's Avatar
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    My nines eat cast all day long...nom,nom!

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

  6. #6
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    DerekP Houston's Avatar
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    Caveat, I don't own a glock.

    My 9mm pistols and carbines have been running fine with PC 9mm RN design from MP. I load standard 124gr"ish", not anything super long like the 147gr. I've also had success taking my hitek coated rounds with an additional layer of BLL on top with no leading. I size to .356, though I may hone my sizer out to .357 for a bit more accuracy.

    Guns used:
    LC9s pro
    Beretta PX4 full size
    Beretta CX4 carbine
    Walther PPQ m2

    I did have leading when I first started casting for it and have had to tweak my alloy and use a 38SW expander. For carry rounds I still use TMJ/Plated rounds as I've found loading and unloading the same rounds repeatedly dings up the front of my rounds.
    My feedback page if you feel inclined to add:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...raight-Shooter

    Thanks Yall!

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    merlin101's Avatar
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    Gee, I must be lucky or something. I started loading 9mm way before I started casting, some of the store bought shot good some were pretty good. Rarely had a problem with leading, now I have 4 9mm handguns and 1 carbine all but one fires lead. The one odd ball is my Keltec and I don't shoot that much at all.
    It's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years (Abe Lincoln)

    "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government. George Washington

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    9MM not so much a casting problem it's a tapered case issue. People have a tendency to over crimp with a factory crimp die and under size the boolit in the last step of loading. running an undersized cast boolit through any caliber is a problem.

    Get the crimp just hard enough to hold the boolit and not downsize it.

    The harder the lead the less problem this is.

    I size and crimp in one die than have the Lee factory crimp die barely "kiss" the cartridge to ensure proper chambering.
    I consistently get the size I'm looking for.

    Pull a couple boolits to make sure you're not downsizing them.

    For the higher speed boolits it a matter of both fit and alloy to get a boolit hard and elastomeric enough to withstand the centrifugal force and not self distruct. Many have had success aloying copper and pushing the boolits over 3000 fps

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

    gwpercle's Avatar
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    I've had success with four different 9 mm pistols. The easiest is a WWII Walther P-38 a compact Springfield gave the most trouble....it has almost no throat. But I worked it out.
    A NOE mould for a 124 grain truncated cone gas checked boolit solved any leading problems even with a rather soft alloy. I use a 50-50 mix of COWW and lead, air cooled. Works like a charm.
    I did have fits getting the seating depth right for the compact one and tried a few lighter powder charges before I got reliable functioning without battering the old P-38 but after that all is good.
    Gary
    Certified Cajun
    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables

  10. #10
    Boolit Master fredj338's Avatar
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    About all I shoot in my 9mm are cast for practice. I want good expansion in a SD bullet but if I had to, I could make a decent LHP work too. Coated would work even better.
    EVERY GOOD SHOOTER NEEDS TO BE A HANDLOADER.
    NRA Cert. Inst. Met. Reloading & Basic Pistol

  11. #11
    Boolit Master DonMountain's Avatar
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    Are there no gas checked bullet molds for the 9mm Luger?

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

    sundog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonMountain View Post
    Are there no gas checked bullet molds for the 9mm Luger?
    Ranch Dog 358-135-RF if you can find one. It's a dandy.
    It ain't rocket science, it's boolit science.

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
    Devon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonMountain View Post
    Are there no gas checked bullet molds for the 9mm Luger?
    NOE has several options in stock.

    http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...ltc3auargn5i82

    http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.p...ltc3auargn5i82

  14. #14
    Boolit Master fredj338's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonMountain View Post
    Are there no gas checked bullet molds for the 9mm Luger?
    Yes, several makers do gc, but IMO, adding a gc is just adding cost & complication for most handgun needs. I can run plain base to 1400fps w/ little to no leading. For most service calibers, you aren't going much past 1100fps or so, no gc needed. I have had the gc taken off several of my molds & would like to remove it from a couple more.
    EVERY GOOD SHOOTER NEEDS TO BE A HANDLOADER.
    NRA Cert. Inst. Met. Reloading & Basic Pistol

  15. #15
    Boolit Master Mytmousemalibu's Avatar
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    I have sent coated cast down the bore of my USPSA race guns pushing 1500fps and according to Quickload, in the ballpark of 40,000psi and they perform just dandy. I have done cast/lubed through other 9mm's at much less ridiculous performance numbers but not slouching either, those did just fine too. The big ticket is fit as always and just enough crimp to take the mouth flare/belling of the case down to flush and only a miniscule more if needed. Same applies to plated bullets. Too much will size it down or cut through plating or coatings and give it a place to fail.
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  16. #16
    Boolit Master
    runfiverun's Avatar
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    good lord I hope you can shoot 9mm with cast, I just loaded 10,000 of the **** things.
    next your gonna tell me I gotta tear down all those 223's and 40 S&W's I got loaded and only shot half of them.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  17. #17
    Boolit Master kens's Avatar
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    Not sure here about the question,
    Are you asking if 9mm is difficult to feed properly?
    Difficult to shoot accurately?
    Difficult to prevent leading?
    As far as the rifle calibers you mentioned above, most all of them are fast twist off the shelf. Cast rifle bullets work better in slower twist barrels.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
    dragon813gt's Avatar
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    Is 9mm Luger another high pressure round that should not shoot Cast?

    Quote Originally Posted by runfiverun View Post
    next your gonna tell me I gotta tear down all those 223's and 40 S&W's I got loaded and only shot half of them.
    Uh oh.....you can't shoot cast in a 40 S&W. That means I'm gonna have to pull down all the 10mm rounds I have loaded w/ 800-X. If cast cant be shot in the 40 Short & Weak then it definitely can't be shot in the real deal cartridge

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Eddie17's Avatar
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    All my 9mm's, only shoot cast. And shoot very well!

  20. #20
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    At 35k psi the 9mm can be shot with a gas check as per the Ranch Dog designs or sans gascheck as is common. I find a gas check on the 9mm to be beneficial. So, do what works for you. Regardless, I have a lot of 9mm handguns and carbines and I mostly shoot cast. Not sure there is any caliber that will not shoot cast bullets just fine.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check