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Thread: I know I know another 9mm leading thread

  1. #1
    Boolit Man MAGA's Avatar
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    I know I know another 9mm leading thread

    So I need some help
    My first casting session went well and i was using my new MP 147gr round nose flat base. I coated them 2x with hi tek black 1035 which passed both tests.
    I did notice the lube groove was not coated
    I loaded them over 2.8 and 3gr of titegroup 1.095 had to seat them that deep to pass the plunk test. And I used a lee FCD with about 1/2 turn of crimp.
    I flared the cases good so I don't think coating was scraping off the base, but it could have possibly been scraping off the top of the lube groove, the groove seems kinda sharp but I'm not sure cause I'm new at this.
    I sized both to .356 and .357
    The last half of the barrel was leaded majorly in about 6 rounds in a Glock 43
    I will pull some shortly and see if maybe the lee FCD was sizing them down
    Alloy was water quenched COWW

    Any other ideas?

    Thanks!!

    Pic of bullet
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    Update:
    Well I chamfered the cases and that took care of the case cutting into the boolit problem, but I made some dummy rounds just now just seating the boolits that deep and just taking the flare back out of the case not even really crimping it was squeezing the bases down to .352-.354
    I guess that means the lee FCD isn't the problem
    Dang that makes me kind of dissapointed i guess that means this problem is basically unavoidable?
    Do I need to find a mold with a bevel base?
    Last edited by MAGA; 09-07-2017 at 05:58 PM.

  2. #2
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    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
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    when you crimped and sized them with the FCD, did you feel much friction during the sizing?

  3. #3
    Boolit Master fredj338's Avatar
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    Ditch the LFCD, & me, I would not shoot TG under any lead bullet, coated or not.
    Yes I taper crimp in a separate step, enough to remove the flare. If you are flaring enough, a chamfer wont matter.
    Last edited by fredj338; 09-08-2017 at 02:14 PM.
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  4. #4
    Boolit Man MAGA's Avatar
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    Maybe just a tad more than normal I pulled about 15 and the bases were about .352 -.354 one was even .346
    On the worst 3 you can see where the case actually cut into the bullet above the lube groove I think from seating?
    Should I put a chamfer on the cases?
    Also I guess that means the Lee FCD is to blame?
    Do you guys still crimp?
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  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    runfiverun's Avatar
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    yep too small, gas cutting, and leading,,,, just like a regular bullet would.

    try 358.
    don't fcd smash them.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
    runfiverun's Avatar
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    the base thing is unavoidable with a bullet that long, that's why most jacketed ones of that weight have a little bevel on the bottom.
    the case is stronger there to deal with the higher pressure of the round.

    I'd also be wary of titegroup and a heavy bullet, titegroup does not like small spaces.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  7. #7
    Boolit Man MAGA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runfiverun View Post
    the base thing is unavoidable with a bullet that long, that's why most jacketed ones of that weight have a little bevel on the bottom.
    the case is stronger there to deal with the higher pressure of the round.

    I'd also be wary of titegroup and a heavy bullet, titegroup does not like small spaces.
    The base thing, do you mean them being sized down just from seating?
    Do you think that means unavoidable leading with this boolit?

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Lyman cast bullet handbook, 4th edition shows Titegroup with the 147 RF seated to 1.058" with a suggested start load of 2.5 gr and a max if 2.8 Gr. Your cast bullet being a round nosed bullet is probably longer, but who knows where the base of the bullet is in the case, and that puts you over the max load and perhaps over the max pressure.

    Recheck your data source, and verify you are not sizing down the bullet in the case. Do you know what size bullet it takes to fill the barrel, or are you just guessing at it?

  9. #9
    Boolit Man MAGA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bannister View Post
    Lyman cast bullet handbook, 4th edition shows Titegroup with the 147 RF seated to 1.058" with a suggested start load of 2.5 gr and a max if 2.8 Gr. Your cast bullet being a round nosed bullet is probably longer, but who knows where the base of the bullet is in the case, and that puts you over the max load and perhaps over the max pressure.


    Recheck your data source, and verify you are not sizing down the bullet in the case. Do you know what size bullet it takes to fill the barrel, or are you just guessing at it?
    Well I have loaded acme hi tek coated .356 145gr round nose with no leading in all my 9mm's including this one

  10. #10
    Boolit Man MAGA's Avatar
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    Well I chamfered the cases and that took care of the case cutting into the boolit problem, but I made some dummy rounds just now just seating the boolits that deep and just taking the flare back out of the case not even really crimping it was squeezing the bases down to .352-.354
    I guess that means the lee FCD isn't the problem
    Dang that makes me kind of dissapointed i guess that means this problem is basically unavoidable?
    Do I need to find a mold with a bevel base?
    Last edited by MAGA; 09-07-2017 at 05:57 PM.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    in my 9mm, I went to a 38 S7W powder through expander. Bottom portion of the expander is .355. I size to .357. Has allowed me to maintain .356 at boolit base. Leading is gone, but I would still like to maintain .357 through the whole boolit. I do have to use the FCD to get it to plunk properly after the larger sizer (goes out to .359/.360 at the end).

    I also picked up a Lyman M die in 38AP and 38P. the AP is not as deep nor as fat as the 38P. I turned down the end of the 38P a bit so I wasn't sizing as deep into the 9mm case. Initially i used both sizers, but found that redundant. On my 4 hole turret, I now run decapping/resizing, then larger powder expander, seater, and FCD for a very light crim (0.379 OD). Seems to have helped my swaging.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    I also have found my problems only come from range scrap (softer). WCWW sized to 356 are very accurate, and hold their size against the case, even without larger expander... but I wanted to utilize my RS as I have more of it. At least I know I could add some Superhard to it to bring to WW hardness and be OK. (not helpful in your case as they were COWW)

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
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    You could always get a taper crimp die instead of the FCD and see if that helps. I think they're only like $12

  14. #14
    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
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    I hate to say this but I think the problem is unavoidable unless you can seat the boolit out to a longer OAL. You may need to have the chamber throated so that is possible. You would then only be limited by the length you magazine would accept.
    Dougguy does this type of work and comes well recommended.

  15. #15
    Boolit Mold
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    I agree with Tasman. The way to avoid staging (other than dispensing with the FCD) is to seat longer. I seat to 1.065 - 1.070 which run through my Glock mags just fine and allow me to seat bullets of 165 grain without bulging or staging.

  16. #16
    Boolit Mold
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    That is to say staging not staging!

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    There are options to avoid having the case sizing your boolit more than you want.

    One possible solution that might work somewhat is to go harder with your lead.

    As noted in post 11 below, the more positive method is to mix and matching parts & pieces from other dies (such as 38 special) to get an expander that opens your casings up to say 0.002" or so smaller than the boolit. This can "fix" the situation with respect to boolit diameter, but you may get case bulges that affect reliable chambering in a tight chamber.

    The depth that you expand also makes a difference, but usually you do not have much choice for this unless you get a "custom" expander made up.

    I am considering making myself some custom "expander only" plugs (no flare) that I can use as part of my search for non-leading 9mm loads. Discussion of my trials and tribulations are spread across several other 9mm leading threads including:

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...98-Glocks-lead
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...18-9mm-leading

  18. #18
    Boolit Man MAGA's Avatar
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    You guys are great!
    I will try a different expander die
    From looking at the links it seems there are about 3 options
    Lyman M die
    Modified lee powder through expander with 38 s&w insert
    Lee universal expander with a NOE expander plug
    Not sure on the differences

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
    runfiverun's Avatar
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    sometimes you just have to improvise and measure.
    I made an expander for my Dillon 550 from another larger expander I chucked it up in my drill and started in with the sandpaper and scrubby pads.
    it ain't the greatest expander/flair tool but it gets the case open enough to take my 358 boolits.
    it's all an educated guess,,,, till the trigger is pulled.

    this opinion brought to you by mister low-tech solution..

  20. #20
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    DerekP Houston's Avatar
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    I tried the 38sw expander in my 9mm and it did not help, a Lyman m die is on my wish list for christmas. Just my 2c. I had to switch to a 124gr rn mold to eliminate the leading in my 9mm and I powder coat those rounds. Good point about range scrap being too soft, I might have to invest in some superhard.
    My feedback page if you feel inclined to add:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...raight-Shooter

    Thanks Yall!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check