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Thread: Best .429 44sp/44-40 lead bullets?

  1. #21
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    Stopsign32V; I use the Noe 429421 245gr. SWC or the Saeco 61444 RNFP. Both work well in my revolvers. Gp

  2. #22
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    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    I've used commercial 200 gr RF and Lee's 200 RF bullet in 44 SPLs, 44 mags and 44-40. They do fine as far as accuracy goes for what they were intended. However, these days in 44 SPL, 44 mag mid-range and 44-40 loads I mostly use the Lee TL 240 gr SWC and the Lyman 429360 SWC. I do use the RCBS 44-250-KT and the Lyman devastator in magnum level 44 magnum loads though. I size them all .430 for use in all 4 of my 44 Magnums except the Devastator which are sized .429 for use in the Colt Anaconda.

    The Lee 240 TL SWC seated to the 2nd lube groove and crimped there seats to the bottom of the 44-40 neck. I do have to size at .429 for those to chamber in my Ruger OM Vaquero 44-40. However the front band on the 429360 isn't full diameter so I leave those sized at .430 and seat to the crimp groove and they chamber fine in the 44-40. After I very slightly turned the barrel in to zero for windage both bullets hit to the same place at 25 and 50 yards with the 2 loads I use. in the Ruger Vaquero 44-40 I use 7 gr of 700X for a very light and accurate load....it hits poa at 25 yards. Over 8.5 gr Unique both bullets hit poa at 50 yards. Winchester cases and CI LPs are used.
    Larry Gibson

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  3. #23
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    Lloyd Smale's Avatar
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    In my ruger and smith I mostly use the 429215
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

  4. #24
    Boolit Buddy
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    How do you change the size of a Bullet with one given die? Example if a die is .429 how would you get a size of .429, .430, or .431? Or am I misreading some of the things I'm reading?

  5. #25
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    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stopsign32v View Post
    How do you change the size of a Bullet with one given die? Example if a die is .429 how would you get a size of .429, .430, or .431? Or am I misreading some of the things I'm reading?
    You need a separate die for each size you want to size to.

  6. #26
    Boolit Buddy
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    So how does shooting a .430 Bullet out of a .429 bore work? Should I not be looking for a .429 die?

    I also know I need to size my throats in the chambers. Need a measuring tool.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stopsign32v View Post
    So how does shooting a .430 Bullet out of a .429 bore work? Should I not be looking for a .429 die? I also know I need to size my throats in the chambers. Need a measuring tool.
    This business of "slugging the barrel" to determine proper bullet size is pure BS, mythology and folklore which needs to have a wooden stake driven through its heart!

    INSTEAD you want to measure the throat, or the unrifled portion of the barrel forcing cone or "ball seat" ahead of the case mouth, before the rifling starts. The best way to do this for measurement purposes and easiest is to upset a throat slug, or as some people call it a "pound cast." READ THE STICKY!

    What you want to measure is the diameter of the UNRIFLED portion of the chamber forward of the case neck BEFORE the rifling starts! Extract the dummy and GENTLY tap the lead slug out and measure it. THAT is the diameter you want to size your bullets to! The upset pure, dead-lead slug is exact and straight forward!

    If you forget EVERYTHING you ever read about slugging barrels and simply cast chambers from now on, and get bullets to FIT THE THROAT you will be far happier in the long run.

    THE limiting factor in safe bullet diameter is neck release clearance. You MUST measure the neck diameter of the chamber on the cast. Most chambers have enough clearance ahead of a fired case mouth that a properly upset throat slug will get you a portion of the case mouth and its transition angle to the throat or ball seat, so that you can measure neck diameter at the mouth and throat diameter of the ball seat.

    The loaded cartridge neck diameter must be 0.0015" SMALLER than the chamber cast at that point, to ensure safe expansion for bullet release. As a general rule the largest diameter of cast bullet which chambers and extracts freely, without resistance, will shoot best.

    For instance in a .44-40 rifle with minimum SAAMI chamber with .445 chamber neck and using Starline brass of 0.007" mouth wall thickness maximum bullet diameter is determined by [neck (.445")-2(neck wall thickness 0.014)] - 0.0015 = 0.4295" In a modern Marlin, Chiappa or Rossi '92 in .44-40 barrel the typical chamber neck diameter is +0.002 above SAAMI Min, or about .447", so neck clearance is adequate for a .4315" bullet, and if you measure the UNRIFLED portion of the ball seat ahead of the case mouth before the rifling starts, IT WILL be THAT LARGE!

    Do a pound cast of your chamber, measure it, and then buy a mold which fits your THROAT, not the groove diameter of the barrel. The largest diameter of cast bullet which chambers and extracts freely, without resistance, will shoot best. For most .44-40 rifles this is .430" For .44 Magnum rifles .432-.433"

    Easiest way to measure neck diameter of your .44 chambers is to tap a soft, pure lead .45 round ball into the chamber, NOT into the rifling, and then tap it out and measure it.
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  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy
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    .451 black powder balls for the throats?

  9. #29
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    JonB_in_Glencoe's Avatar
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    Pure lead is soft, and will easily size down to measure the throats, use some gun oil to make such it comes out easily (or easily pushes through the cylinder).

    link to the sticky "Pound Cast", this is for a rifle chamber throat, as I am unsure if we are talking rifle or revolver?
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...o-a-pound-cast

  10. #30
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe View Post
    Pure lead is soft, and will easily size down to measure the throats, use some gun oil to make such it comes out easily (or easily pushes through the cylinder).

    link to the sticky "Pound Cast", this is for a rifle chamber throat, as I am unsure if we are talking rifle or revolver?
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...o-a-pound-cast
    Sorry, revolvers

  11. #31
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stopsign32v View Post
    .451 black powder balls for the throats?
    .45 rifle balls are used to check the chamber NECK, not throat!

    For checking .44 REVOLVER throats use .433" pure lead muzzle-loader balls.

    It is not unusual for modern .44-40 revolvers to have cylinder throats of diameter smaller than barrel groove diameter. AND at the same time for the chamber necks to be too tight to be able to load a bullet of diameter large enough to fit cylinder throats which has been honed large enough to match the barrel.
    Case in point, my Ruger .44-40 Vaquero had .444 chamber necks and .425 cylinder throats with a .429 groove diameter barrel. Nothing would shoot for sour apples.

    In such cases the cylinder must be rechambered to enlarge the chamber necks, as well as enlarhing the cylinder throats so that you can load bullets large enough to fit properly in the modern .44 Magnum dimensioned barrel. John Taylor rechambered my cylinder to enlarge the neck diameters to .447" and the throats to .4305." I now load .430" cast bullets in it and it shoots like a rifle!

    DougGuy is another on this forum who is set up to correct too-tight cylinder necks and throats. Doing so costs about half what of a Bowen cylinder blank costs before having it fitted and chambered to have a custom cylinder done! I've gone through both exercises with several revolvers and believe me, the "fixing" the Ruger cylinder which came factory fitted to your gun is a bargain.
    Last edited by Outpost75; 09-08-2017 at 04:18 PM.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check