Dutch Shultz Patch - ?? on water soluble oil

[bedbugbilly]

I'm not posting this to get into a debate on what the best patch lube is so let's not go there please.

I am looking for an answer of what water soluble oil is the best now for doing the Dutch Shultz patching? i.e. soaking patch material and then letting it dry.

I've used this type of patching for many years and the last time I made patching material up was probably five years ago when I made a large supply of it. I'm getting ready to make a supply of it again as I'm getting low.

I use pillow ticking as well as thinner cotton material for patching. At the time that Dutch cam out with this, my brother and i tried it and it worked very well for both of us. At the time (probably twenty years ago) we got a container of water soluble oil form the local NAPA dealer. The last time I made patching, I used it up but kept the container to get another one. Well . . . in our move to a new place this past June, the empty container evidently got tossed by mistake and I no longer have the NAPA name or number of the water soluble oil. So I have been doing searches and have run across remarks of the newer water soluble oil having "polymer additives".

So what are those who use this method using for the water soluble oil now to do this type of lubing of the patching (which is then air dried)? Ballistol? If so, what is the best source for it - never used it so is it available in hardware store or ?

I usually cut strips of the material (after washing well to remove the "sizing"), soak and hang out to dry. (Normally I muzzle cut). This time, I'll make more strips but then also want to soak a piece of the material and then cut "pre cut" patches out of it using my drill press and patch cutting cutters I've made.

I did call the local NAPA store but it has changed hands and the young fellow I talked with didn't have much information that would help as far as trying to get the same thing we bought years ago. The "old timers" who could answer questions and who had the experience/knowledge have all retired.

Thanks

[country gent]

There are several water soluable oils available. Some are lubricating for pumps and such that work in an enclosed system. One is for your vehicles water pump, you pour it in the radiator and it lubes the pumps bearings and impellor. Some also improve the flow of the water and increase the ability to carry heat to the radiators. Another is a machining oil that's dissolved in water to improve tool life and carry chips and heat away. The old ones were a black oil that when mixed with water turned a milky white. These were the ones used to make "moose Milk" and patch lubes. The newer forms of this style do have other additives in them that may become an issue. Napas water Soluable oil is probably a lubricating type for radiators and water pumps. Check some of the smaller machine shops for the older water Sol they may have some on hand and sell you the small amount you will need. At 20-1 a 5 ounce container makes over 100 ounces of lube

[rodwha]

Hmmm... My understanding is that Moose Milk is made with Ballistol.

And Ballistol, I thought, is what Dutch used and mentioned.

I've yet to try Ballistol as a patch lube but I've certainly read of a few people who love it, and I use it for various other BP uses figured I'd have to give it a try once I get back to a range and begin working on loads as prior I was merely breaking it in and having fun using grape seed oil as it's all SWMBO would allow me to use out of the pantry having given me a lot of fuss and scolding when she saw me with the olive oil in hand.

I ordered my aerosol can from Dixie Gun Works but don't recall when I bought the regular oil from. Online though as it's just not common. Were I to guess I'd say Amazon.

[waksupi]

Dutch recommended Ballistol, as the formula for the NAPA stuff apparently changed. I imagine MSC would have a suitable oil. Ballistol is available at sporting goods stores in this area.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Moose Milk: Have your typical Shot Glass ready!
1 shot glass of water soluble oil "Ballistol"
1 shot glass of Pinesol
2 shots hydrogen peroxide - 3% solution
20 shots of water
When weather turns very cold to the freezing point, you can add 2 shots of Alcohol to your mix to prevent it from freezing.

---

Castor Oil 4 oz.

Murphy's Oil Soap 1 oz.

Witch Hazel 4 oz.

Isopropyl Alcohol (91%) 8 oz.

Water (non-chlorinated) 16 oz

[country gent]

Ballistol is one of the earlier water soluble oils. German chemistry they used it for cleaning, restoration work, preserving leather, and production machining. Its a great oil for all of this smell is different and some really don't care for it.

[10 ga]

For my prelubed patching material it's a pretty simple formula = equal parts beeswax and deer tallow. Make a roll of patch material, slowly melt lube in microwave and stir to mix, set roll of material in bowl of melted and very viscous lube. Let it sit a bit then take out of bowl and place on wax paper to cool. repeat until all your rolls of material lubed. Simple, easy and nice stiff patches with plenty lube and they cut easily with scissors or a sharp knife. My way, others will differ. 10

PS: following the stripes on the pillow ticking make cutting long even strips of patching material easy.

[izzyjoe]

I've tried different patch lubes, some worked good, others just plain sucked! Olive oil soaked patches worked well, but gojo hand cleaner didn't work. 70/30 water, ballistol seemed to work the best using Ducth's method. I kept cutting it with water till it didn't work so well, and then backed up.

[rfd]

jim,

as already posted, dutch specified ballistol water soluble oil. also and fwiw, and besides the dry lube patching he advocates, dutch's load is all about really tight patched large diameter balls in the percussion guns he was shooting before he had to stop due to vision issues. you may find, as others have, that his dry lube system requires rigorous fouling control between shots. basically, dutch's treatise was all about bench shooting percussion rifles.

rob.

[bedbugbilly]

Thaks all for the info.

country gent - time flies, especially when you get older and the more I got to thinking about it, it has probably been 20 + years since we bought that water soluble oil from NAPA.Your reference to black oil is about right and when we mixed it up, it did turn the milky white sort of color.

I have been shooting BP for close to 55 years now and over that time, I have tried just about every lube you could think of. I'm very familiar with the "moose milk" but Dutch's process is to soak the patching and then air dry it. When you're done, the patch has a lubricating quality to it but no muss or fuss of grease,, tallow or whatever. I normally cut my strips 36" in length and just die to the strap of my hunting pouch and cut when loading.

When I first read Dutch Shultz's information, I sort of poo poo'd it but my brother and I decided to give it a try. I ate crow instantly. It worked well or of our smoothbore trade guns as well as rifles - both small bore and large boe. Since then, that's all I use. While I still prefer to spit patch between shots, I can fire repeated times without a wipe of the bore in between if necessary. Our groups tightened up with all of our guns.

We are going in to the city tomorrow so I'll try and find a can of Bllistol to ry. Thanks for the information - greatly appreciated!

Jim

[mozeppa]

hamicut 800 is water soluable... looks like milk.

[waksupi]

Moose Milk: Have your typical Shot Glass ready!
1 shot glass of water soluble oil "Ballistol"
1 shot glass of Pinesol
2 shots hydrogen peroxide - 3% solution
20 shots of water
When weather turns very cold to the freezing point, you can add 2 shots of Alcohol to your mix to prevent it from freezing.

---

Castor Oil 4 oz.

Murphy's Oil Soap 1 oz.

Witch Hazel 4 oz.

Isopropyl Alcohol (91%) 8 oz.

Water (non-chlorinated) 16 oz

Lost me at the hydrogen peroxide. I experimented on barrel sections, highly corrosive.

It would work well to brown a barrel.

Let the argument begin.

[koger]

I started using it in the early 90's, guy was selling Dutch's info packet with a bottle of oil mixed up at Friendship. He turned me on to Mobil Met, water soluble cutting oil, for metal working! I came home, ordered a gallon from my local machine shop, been hooked ever since. I mix it 1-4, oil to water, in a bucket, soak as much patch material as I can, wring it out and pour the remaining into a jug of some kind for future use. I then lay the patch material out on a flat concrete surface, with some rocks to hold it down, till dry, then either process or fold up, in a zip lock bag, good to go!!

[rfd]

Lost me at the hydrogen peroxide. I experimented on barrel sections, highly corrosive.

It would work well to brown a barrel.

Let the argument begin.

i totally agree, ditch the H2O2, it's corrosive and not needed. in fact, ditch EVERYTHING other than 1 part water soluble oil and 6 parts of distilled water. that's all any of us would ever need to clean out any gun, or maintain fouling control.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

boys,thats right from dutches book.

[rfd]

i have dutch's "e-book" ... there are more than a few things in it that i don't accept as "right" when it comes to trad muzzleloaders. this is not at all to say dutch is "wrong". it's all a matter of perspective and what floats yer boat best.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

same, I found it to be a good read, but nothing that I follow by these days. It can be very helpful to someone to zero knowledge and needs some guidance.

[rfd]

no, it's about learning, then making a choice. you learn about loading parameters, do yer testings, figure out what's best for you. dry lube patching isn't for everyone, same as tight patch loads. dutch's methods work well off the bench, not so much out of the pouch.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

Tight patches are my #1 find to best accuracy. A light amount of lube that keeps the patch light and fluffy works best for me than one slathered in lube that turns hard and waxy. Consistent seating pressure however I think folks have the hardest time with.

[rfd]

absolutely true. i do believe that tightly patched balls, using thick patching that's well pre-lubed (greased through the cotton or linen fibers), and requires both a starter and mallet, along with proper shot-to-shot fouling control, will offer the better consistent accuracy at any distance.

all of that is not my cup of tea and difficult if not impossible for me to administer and control during a 10 to 30 shot woods walk, with mandatory out-of-pouch style of shooting.

none of this is right or wrong, good or bad. it's about personal preferences for a task at hand.