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Thread: Dutch Shultz Patch - ?? on water soluble oil

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    South Jersey
    Bedbug, you might want to consider using Lehigh Valley Lube and Cleaner on your patches ...
    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #22
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    MI (summer) - AZ (winter)
    I certainly agree that there are many ways to do it and everybody has what works best for them.

    I haven't "abandoned" using other patch lubes. For years, I've had excellent luck with a pound of non salt crisco melted together with one real beeswax toilet ring. I've used it in the bases of my rifled musket minie balls (yea, I never lube the rings and have successfully fired tens of thousands of the that way) and also used it in my C & B revolvers and worked it into my patching for both rifle and smoothbore. Others have their own formulas that work for them and that's great.

    When Dutch first started selling his info, both my brother and i were having problems with our 20 gauge trade guns (smoothbore). His method of dry lubed patches turned out to work well out of both of our trade guns. I also had a 36 caliber Virginia style flintlock that I had just finished that I was having some issues with - if I remember correctly, I used a Green Moutain barrel on that one. I tried a number of different lubes but when I tried the dry lube patching, it really tightened the groups up. Unfortunately, I had a guy offer me a price I couldn't resist on the rifle and I sold it before I had an opportunity to pursue the dry lube patching in it any further.

    I agree with rfd - it depends on your view of "traditional" as well and *** to how you are shooting. Regardless of if I'm shooting at a bench or out of the pouch. I like my patched balls to go down the bore with fair ease - and that involves not only working with patch lubes but patch/ball fit that does the trick. On RB barrels, I usually like to do a fouling shot and then run a patch down the barrel between shots. BUT - that isn't always practical when you are doing a timed event or a woods walk, etc. So, you do what works best for you and what fits your desires as far as being "traditional", etc. Nothing wrong with that at all.

    Some like their patched balls to be tight, some like 'em loose and some are OCD and weight every ball and charge - and that's fine - to each their own. My grandfather had a 45 caliber plains style rifle that he bought off of a fellow who came to Michigan around 1832. (My grandfather was born in 1867). I have heard my
    Dad tell how good a shooter he was with it, once hitting a dog who was killing his sheep and that dog was close to 125 yards away - I know as I know where it took place and I paced it off one time. He cast his balls in the typical "bag mold" and trimmed the spurs with the handle cutter. I doubt that any of them weighted the same. The rifle had square patches lubed with what looked like sheep tallow in the patch cap box on the stock.

    I've read Dutch Shutlz's material and I certainly don't agree with all of it. In the beginning, I poo poked the water soluble patching as well - but I found it worked for what I was shooting. It's like anything else - you read it, you study it and you take away things that "might" work for you - then you try 'em and if they don't - nothing ventured nothing gained.

    I smiled when I read reference to a "mallet". Years ago - many years ago - there was a guy who came to Friendship and usually did a lot of shooting on the offhand range. He was the poster child for OCD. He was a nice guy and I got to talking with him one day and he "lectured me" not he importance of keeping everything the same - exact powder grain weights, exact ball weights, same caps, same powder, etc. He had a nice half stock percussion rifle and quite the fancy shooting box as well. One thing he stressed was the uniformity of the ball to insure the same "flight". O.K. . . . . if it works for you then more power to you I thought. I watched him loads many many times. He used a drop tube down the bore, carefully dumped his powder charges in - swabbed between shots exactly the same each time, etc. When loading though, he defined the "tight patch/ball" concept. He always used a pre-cut patch and carefully set his ball on top, sprue up. Then, he' pull out his pretty ebony mallet and whack it to start it in the bore - followed by a short starter which he hammered on with the mallet, then a longer short starter, then the ramrod with a wide turned top that his mallet would hammer on. I always wondered what that soft lead ball looked ike when it got to the breech and was seated on the charge - it couldn[t have been round. He was an "O.K." shooter but didn't set any records but he was "consistent" in his style.

    My point is to keep an open mind and not be afraid to try new things - if nothing more than to say you've tried it. Do what is within your parameters and don't get hung up on what someone else says " is the way to do it". Dutch Shultz offers some interesting things to read and think about but let's face it, he's sold a lot of his information packets over the years. Some may work for you and some may not. If it's one thing I've learned in 55 years of shooting BP, it's that "nobody is an expert". Don't get so hung up on what the "experts" say as every gun is different and lies different things - and having fun while shooting front stuffers or any other firearm is what it's all about.

    Thanks to everyone for taking the time to post - a lot of interesting information and some products I wasn't aware of!

  3. #23
    Boolit Master

    rfd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    NJ via TX
    fwiw, what i favor these dayze is a "loose" easy load (no short starter, "thumb" seating) that allows decent accuracy with no fouling control between shots. to achieve that with most of my trad ml's typically means a smaller ball diameter and not too thick a patch. the patch lube is super important, and what i now use exclusively is good ol' #1 gato feo that's been both rubbed ONTO the patch strip cloth weave and then heat gunned INTO that weave. these greased patch strips feel nearly dry to the touch, though in super summer heat i'll vary the grease formula by using more beeswax. the 16"-18" patch strips are either rolled up (for muzzle cutting), or cut into squares (the width of the strip - width depends on caliber) for individual patches, or used with a ball board. this trad muzzleloader thing will always be a personal journey - who'd want it any other way?

  4. #24
    Boolit Buddy heelerau's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Gidgegannup Western Australia
    Mate, I bought Dutchs' system a couple of years ago, he stated that the cutting oil he normally used had changed in its formula at some point, and now suggested Balistol, that is what I am using and it seems fine.
    Keep yor hoss well shod an' yo powda dry !

  5. #25
    Boolit Master Toymaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Springfield, VA
    Tru-Edge Economy Soluble Oil

    Tru-Edge Lubricants
    P.O. Box 227
    Clover, South Carolina 29710

    Hope that helps. Be glad to give you any additional info off the label or photograph it for you and send it. Just send me a message with your email address.

    I use 7:1 dilution.

    At some point Dutch did start suggesting Ballistol but his original recommendation was water soluble oil "looks like oil, smells like oil, feels like oil, tastes like oil". He also warned against the blue water soluble oil because it was combustible at high heat and pressure, which caused some interesting results.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check