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Thread: Lee REAL bullets

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    The driving bands on REAL slugs are said to be in .005" increments of diameter.
    That is because in muzzleloading there is no standard bore diameter.
    Supposedly the smallest band (base) will lightly engrave, and each band engraves a bit deeper as you insert the bullet.
    Soft lead does in fact obturate with black powder, so the REAL is to grab the rifling no matter your bore size.
    I have shot 45acp bullets out of a muzzleloader, and they did stabilize, therefore I know they are obturating & grabbing the rifling.

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master

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    The Lee REALs have different size bands to aid in loading and it also helps to keep it going in straight. First band doesn't really engrave at all or barely does depending on bore size. They larger progressively with the top band should come out .017 over bore size but that depends on the bore size of your gun. The bands as people can see aren't very big so heavier loads will cause stripping of the bands. That's where a over powder wad comes into play and helps make the round more accurate. It helps keep the blow by pressure from destroying the bands and accuracy or at least that's the way I see it working.
    Aim small, miss small!

  3. #23
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    I tried with a 100% wool felt wad, and went as low as 50 grains by volume. I couldn't hit a piece of paper at a measly 100 yards. I don't think we can blame the twist rate. What would be the ideal rate for a 320 grain real, 1:36"? They seem to shoot good from 1:48", and mines just a 1:28". I do have some real blackpowder I could try, but it wouldn't shoot for **** with BH 209 or 777. I've tried with and without a wad, and with 2 different lubes. I am getting the best castings I can provide, the driving bands are fully filled, and the weights don't vary but about 1 grain. I honestly think this is a problem with the QLA muzzle, and it makes sense now. I didn't know at the time, but I've tried all kinds of factory bullets. I don't think any sabot shoots bad, and the hornady FPB and Powerbelts shoot good. The only other full bore bullet I tried was a Federal bore-lok, which does not have a hollow base to flair, and that shot about the worst of anything besides these REAL's.

  4. #24
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    I tried various things to shoot conicals out of a 1:66 (45cal) round ball barrel. For the most part I was using .45acp bullets cast soft.
    Here is what I found that worked and not worked. all of these are full bore, no sabots.
    Take a 45acp bullet and drill a hollow base, grease it, it works.
    Take a 45acp bullet solid base, grease it, it don't work
    Then I experimented with cloth patching.
    I took thinnest muslin I could find, greased it, and cut it into narrow strips to lay as a X over the muzzle, seat the bullet & the X-patch wraps around the bullet.
    The hollow based bullet doesnt like the x patch.
    The solid base bullet does like the X patch.

    May I suggest trying the cloth X patch method with the REAL?

  5. #25
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    The REAL bullets are already a good fit, no way they would go with any kind of patch. Even if I could, you think it could bring accuracy down from a shotgun pattern to 3" or smaller?

  6. #26
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    the patch helped accuracy with my full bore bullets.
    maybe if you try your small diameter REALS first with the patch, to see how tight they load

  7. #27
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    How much did it help? Are we talking cutting 4" down to 2"? Mine are shooting 18" plus, and probably tumbling. I'll give REAL's a try again, but not until I have the QLA muzzle cut off, and a proper crown cut.

  8. #28
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    yes, it helped that much.

  9. #29
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    If they are tumbling then you are pushing them too fast. Or they are undersized too much. The felt wad between the slug and powder will help. But you need to slow them down. My TC rifles have 1 1-48 twist and 80-90 grs is about all that the slugs will handle. There is just not enough bearing surface on the slugs and they are stripping in the rifling.

  10. #30
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    With a 1-28 twist you'd be better off with some longer bullets or firing sabots. As someone stated, if you want to fire the REAL's try backing off the powder a bit.

    Try the Hornady Great Plains bullets, or, even better, try paper patching My Lyman GPH likes 450gn PP bullets and the Hornady's (sized to .501).

  11. #31
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    Got a Goodwill store close by. Look for pewter things. Far East {small} animal figurines_picture frame or even a gaudy German beer mug. Those items? Some are made of as much as 98% tin. Ounce or two of tin in a 10 lb batch will help fill your mold out.
    If you don't mind the wintergreen smell? Chance to OxYoke Wonder Lube. It's a much better lube than that Greasy Kids Stuff. i.e. T/Cs Bore Butter~~ish.

  12. #32
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    Will LEE tumble libe work.
    Im getting back to to real and blackhorn 209

  13. #33
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    The LEE tumble lube may work for Blackhorn 209 but it is not recommended for black powder.

  14. #34
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    can't say one way another about the Lee but I use a REAL
    for Tom http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...=51-300A-D.png,
    it works real well and I get excellent groups at 50 yds with that boolit
    he also makes one in 54 cal that I use and works equally as well
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by white eagle View Post
    can't say one way another about the Lee but I use a REAL
    for Tom http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...=51-300A-D.png,
    it works real well and I get excellent groups at 50 yds with that boolit
    he also makes one in 54 cal that I use and works equally as well
    I like the looks of his version with the wider meplat vs the Lee style, though I'd need to blow out the driving bands a bit more. My Lee REAL (320 grn version) has a last band width of .517" and my bore, according to Lyman, should be close to .520". I've considered having my mold modified to give it a wider meplat, but then I like knowing what the BC value is (.189). Most people don't have a complaint on it's effectiveness, though I have read a few who weren't impressed.

  16. #36
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    I shot these with 50 grain (by volume) of blackhorn 209. I did not chronograph them, as they shot worse than 70 grains, but 70 grains only gives about 1450 fps. 50 grains should be in the ballpark of 1250 fps. I tried tin, I bought pure tin and added it 40-1, my bullets are fully filled out. Maybe the patch could help accuracy, if it acts kind of a sabot. I can't imagine it being anything but a real bear to shove down the barrel though. For one, I'm having my QLA removed, and barrel re-crowned. Step two, I'll try the REAL's again, but I will most likely go to a heavier bullet as some have suggested. I'll try maxi-balls first, as you can buy them from a store.

    Again, not to be a jerk, just to eliminate the confusion...

    1. I've loaded these from 50-120 grains of Blackhorn 209 (on 5 or more occasions), and tried 100 grains 777.
    2. I am casting HOT, and with tin added. My bullets are fully filled out.
    3. I sorted by weight, and by size.

    They just plain don't shoot in my gun, and the internet is littered with hundreds of people in the same boat, all due to the counter bored muzzle on T/C muzzle loaders (QLA). I could shoot sabots, but I'd prefer not to, plus even buying in bulk they cost more than they should. That would be my last resort. Hornady FPB's shoot well from my gun, but at almost $1 each, I can't shoot too many.

  17. #37
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    I have a CVA 1:28 twist, and my next experiment will be shooting 500S&W bullets. I anxious to see if they obturate like a powerbelt.

  18. #38
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    Every ML gun is of it's own. Some guns just don't like certain things. Can you make it work if you keep trying? Probably but is it worth the effort and expense. Only each person can decide that. Some guns tend like about everything and some others can be very picky on what they like.
    Aim small, miss small!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check