Titan ReloadingLee PrecisionGraf & SonsInline Fabrication
ADvertise hereRotoMetals2StainLess Steel Media

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 33

Thread: .458 muzzleloader

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

    glockky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    505

    .458 muzzleloader

    I was wanting to know what would be the easiest or cheapest way to get into a .458 bore muzzleloader?

    I have many 45-70 molds and it would be nice to be able to shoot them patched or lubed.
    Ill keep my guns money and freedom you keep the CHANGE!!!

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    MT
    Posts
    1,143
    I like the way you think.
    "I have this mould, what gun should I buy for it?"
    ..

  3. #3

  4. #4
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    40
    I've been in this situation before. Have a mold or a metric **** tonne of bullets and need a gun to fit.

    Get a .458 barrel, breech it and build an underhammer.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	47217.jpg 
Views:	51 
Size:	92.5 KB 
ID:	202813

    Due to molds on hand, it has become a switch barrel in .452 fast twist, 45 RB, 54 RB, and a 54 Maxi ball and 32 maxi ball on the way.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    MI (summer) - AZ (winter)
    Posts
    2,906
    You could go two different ways . . .

    1. Have a custom barrel made to "drop in" and existing rifle . . .

    or

    2. Do as RWE suggests - find a barrel, breech it and build an under hammer. Pecatonica River has the under hammer actions as well as the stocks for a build. An under hammer would allow you to change out barrels easily for other calibers. I'm partial to under hammers - easily shot either left or right handed, simple, quick ignition and just plain fun.

    All depends on what your leaning is nd how much you want to spend on it. I doubt very much if you are going to find a rifle with the barrel you are wanting already on it unless you run across one that a like minded person put together. Good luck to you . . . . I agree with you that it would be nice to have a rifle to shoot what you like boolit wise!

  6. #6
    Boolit Bub
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    40
    Regarding the underhammer, if you got molds, you got a lead pot. And tempering the spring would be easy at that point.

    Mine has a 3/4" diameter hole in the receiver on the stock, and the barrels have a 3/4 diameter stub for the breech. A single set pin to fix the barrel to the receiver.

    The 452 is scoped, but the rest have open sights, so switching is easy peasy.


    Now all those moulds that I have horded for eons have a use.

    I cast wheel weights in a SAA for my colt pistol, and use a "watered down" WW/pure lead mixture in the same mold for the muzzleloader.

    Cavemen could do it....

    And those fast twists you can go carbine length - 24" +/- if you are looking for a handi thumper or full monte if you want a target/long range piece.
    Last edited by RWE; 08-29-2017 at 09:19 AM.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Good Cheer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    the Ark
    Posts
    2,651
    Wanting a hunting piece rather than a paper puncher, the way I went was to take a solid no nonsense rifle that I wanted to use and had the barrel lined with the rifling and twist of my choice.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	My 45 rifle.jpg 
Views:	27 
Size:	29.2 KB 
ID:	202817

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	NE 457124.jpg 
Views:	30 
Size:	43.5 KB 
ID:	202816

    Works with .45 rifle boolits lubed lead or patched and .45 pistol boolits patched.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    3,042
    I picked up a Gonic (.458), but the barrel was trashed. Too bad, too. The serial number indicated it was the inventor's son's gun. Had to rebarrel it. The new barrel is just over ..453 -- go figure. It's been a nightmare to get this one right. Many technical problems to overcome. That said, I'd rebarrel one of these again and just put up with the challenges involved. The ever present option for you would be to send the gun to Bob Hoyt (barrel magician) and have him line it or bore it to your spec's. Since you know your boolit weight, he could give you a twist rate optimized for it.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master pietro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    2,906
    .

    FWIW, any .50cal inline rifle can use saboted .45 (.458") boolits - and .50cal frontstuffers are a dime a dozen, usually available in excellent/used condition for around $200.


    .
    Experience is a wonderful thing - It lets you recognize a mistake, when you make it again.

  10. #10
    Get the bullet in its firing position with everything just right, and it won't care which direction the powder went in. The difficulty is that for a .458 groove barrel, it is difficult to force down a .458 diameter bullet in perfect alignment. Most bullets for muzzle loaders are land diameter, either in lead if they are grooved and lubed, or over a patch, and they rely on expansion. As a sweeping generalisation, target rifles with a fast twist and heavy bullets can do it by the inertia of the bullet, but lighter bullets need a hollow base.

    One way to force groove diameter bullets into the muzzle would be to make a false muzzle. This can be entirely smoothbored and bullet diameter, but I will describe how to make one with the start of the rifling.

    If your barrel is heavy enough at the muzzle, drill a couple of holes lengthwise into it. (If it is thinner you would have to gs arrange some other locating device, such as a key or a sleeve notched to fit the front sight block.) Then cut off the last couple of inches, and fit pins in those holes, so that it can be plugged into the muzzle holes with the bore in perfect alignment. In theory that should leave the muzzle and false muzzle separated by the thickness of the saw cut. You would probably want to solder on a washer to take up the space. Orn a closely with the sleeve alignment you could adjust that to put the rifling in alignment, sliding on a cerrosafe bore case.

    However you do it, you then "chamber" the front of that false muzzle so that you can drop in a closely fitting bullet, and then force it down into the rifling. The class act used to be to attach the false muzzle with a bayonet fitting or hooks, and it would incorporate its own levers, like a tiny reloading press. But you are about as well off driving the bullet down with a mushroom-shaped plunger and the heel of your hand, or even a mallet.

    Many false muzzles had a short vertical arm sticking up. It saved a little fumbling to get it the right way up. But its real function was to obscure the sights and stop you sending the false muzzle downrange by shooting with it in place. People do talk so.

    I got very useful results with my Bohemian double rifle and a .50-70 breech loader bullet, using a false muzzle located solely by a land diameter pin in the other barrel. The bullet-holding hole could swing through an arc, but its short bore was, at worst, parallel to the one the bullet had to go down, and it aligned itself quite satisfactorily

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

    glockky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    505
    I didn't know if finding a used hawked and having it the barrel bored or refined would be a better option.

    I've personally never held or shot a underhammer.
    Ill keep my guns money and freedom you keep the CHANGE!!!

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Nobade's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Albuquerque, Nuevo Mexico
    Posts
    4,321
    Bob Hoyt can do rebores in .458/.466 so you can shoot normal 45-70 bullets.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Tom, VA
    Posts
    3,750
    Quote Originally Posted by Ballistics in Scotland View Post
    The difficulty is that for a .458 groove barrel, it is difficult to force down a .458 diameter bullet in perfect alignment.
    Exactly. I just finished a flintlock rifle with a Green Mountain 45-70 barrel. It loads and shoots well with 0.452" bullets (Lyman 451-114).

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

    glockky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    505
    Are you patching the .452 bullets
    Ill keep my guns money and freedom you keep the CHANGE!!!

  15. #15
    Boolit Master Good Cheer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    the Ark
    Posts
    2,651
    With the .458 bore diameter you get to shoot lubed lead or the very same molds paper patched and then sized .457.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	408 grain coffee filter.jpg 
Views:	15 
Size:	53.6 KB 
ID:	202844
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	New Englander and Lyman 457124.jpg 
Views:	15 
Size:	107.1 KB 
ID:	202845

    .45 Colt SWC molds paper patched also work. Intending to try the RCBS 250 round nose for grins.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	RCBS 45-255.jpg 
Views:	13 
Size:	88.6 KB 
ID:	202846

    It'll also shoot the same round ball as the revolver on your hip.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

    glockky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    505
    Who lined your barrel Good Cheer
    Ill keep my guns money and freedom you keep the CHANGE!!!

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Tom, VA
    Posts
    3,750
    Quote Originally Posted by glockky View Post
    Are you patching the .452 bullets
    No, 0.452" bullets are correct for a 458 ML barrel.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master Good Cheer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    the Ark
    Posts
    2,651
    Quote Originally Posted by glockky View Post
    Who lined your barrel Good Cheer
    Mister Hoyt.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Good Cheer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    the Ark
    Posts
    2,651
    Quote Originally Posted by Tatume View Post
    No, 0.452" bullets are correct for a 458 ML barrel.
    That's why mine was made .458 bore diameter instead of .458 groove, so it would use the multitude of off the shelf .45 rifle molds. Being able to use paper patching with revolver molds and the same round ball as percussion .44 revolvers is lagniappe.

    The latest is .520 bore specialized to use off the shelf fifty rifle molds paper patched and sized .519.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	457 vs 519.jpg 
Views:	8 
Size:	28.5 KB 
ID:	202848

  20. #20
    I'm shooting my RCBS 45-300-FN out of my Lyman Great Plains Hunter with a sabot from MMP.
    http://mmpsabots.com/store/orange-hph-sabot/

    AntiqueSledMan

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check