More Tight Wad Swaging

[Huvius]

So, after my positive experience making .458" boolits from 45acp brass, I thought I would give making some for my 10.75X68 Mauser.
Keep in mind that this boolit can be used in the 404 Jeffery as a nice plinking or small game boolit.
Using fired 40S&W brass looks to be the logical start and tinkering with the core, I think I have come up with a pretty good boolit.
Just as I did with my .458s, I looked to use some standard reloading dies I already had on hand.
Evaluating case dimensions, I found that a 303 British die would give me a nice taper and a .423-.424" base diameter when pressed up into the die to the right spot.
My first go consisted of the brass and a 38/40 cast boolit as a core. This produced a light boolit with not much of a nose profile. What I was looking for is in the 300gr range with some sort of nose shape. I wasn't too particular on the nose profile just yet and found that a 6.5x54 die would work to shape the nose before pressing into the 303 die to reduce the body diameter.

Here is the empty brass. One with the 38/40 boolit as a core (which didnt fill the case very well) and one made with a 38cal lead ball inserted under the 38/40 slug. This is only pressed into the 6.5 die.



Once pressed into the 303 die, the desired diameter was reached.



Now. These two piece core models came out a bit under 300gr and shot shot pretty good.
I used 40gr of H4198 and a backer rod filler on these. That gave me 1840fps and no pressure signs or extraction issues.



I really wanted to get a better core and a nicer nose profile so I tried filling the cases with molten lead which I think helps to soften the case a bit although the non annealed cases seem to size and work just fine too.
Getting a consistent pour into a piece of brass is not as easy as it sounds but I was able to get a batch that are close to what I'm looking for. I have an idea that will make this part of the process much easier and more consistent - will report as it comes together.
For the nose, I tried lightly pressing the lead filled cases into my .451 paper patch swage die. This did give me a nice round nose profile which looks great but honestly, I don't know if it matters as far as accuracy at the ranges I would use this rifle. I think that for sure most folks don't have a point form die or swaging setup so sticking with the 6.5 die is a good option and I bet the flat nosed boolits that die produces would hit like the hammer of Thor!
I have found that I can skip the step of using the 6.5 die altogether if I use this die so that is what I am doing from now on since I have the option. Primarily for a nicer looking boolit but as I said, there is no difference in velocity and I doubt anything at the other end would notice...

This is what that looks like.


Here is the loaded cartridge.



And my 16yo son enjoying the results!!

[uncle dino]

Good job. To fill cases with molten lead, you could always drill a mold so the case sits flush under Sprue plate.. Insert case in mold, then pour it full, would get you pretty consistent results. D

[Huvius]

D, that's exactly what the new development involves except it just so happens that my core mold for my .451 swaging is an exact fit for these 40S&W cases!
The rub is that I will have to trim all of them exactly before the fill and my trimmer won't go that short so I have to figure that out.

[brstevns]

Nice Job. Have you tried these at 100 yards.
Take a look at my post titled ( Hope they work ) working with loading dies like you are doing.

[clodhopper]

Nice bullet.
Ole bambi will just lay down and give up when you tag him with one of those.

[GhostHawk]

I have been using .40 brass, and a 158 grain .358 bullet dropped in.

Insert bullet first into an old RCBS .270 sizing die with the decapping pin threaded out.

I use an old square punch against the .40 brass and whack it about 10 times. Does a great job of rolling the brass in and forming the nose. I have been loading mine in .444 brass. Shoot them in my .444 handi rifle.

Biggest time saver for me was learning to use a Lee .430 sizing die to presort my brass. Brass that falls through are small so they go back to be reloaded. Anything that takes a firm push through the sizing die ends up working well.

[brstevns]

Great work

[Hamish]

D, that's exactly what the new development involves except it just so happens that my core mold for my .451 swaging is an exact fit for these 40S&W cases!
The rub is that I will have to trim all of them exactly before the fill and my trimmer won't go that short so I have to figure that out.

Sounds like a job for the Harbor Freight Mini Saw,,,,

[Huvius]

Well, I finally got around to working on this little project again.
I tried the core mold idea and it sort of works but the sprue cutter is long and allows too much spill over and flashing so most of them had to be worked over and trimmed of excess lead which takes too much time.
Then, it hit me!
If I could find a mold which will hold the brass well enough, the problem would be solved.
So, looking through my mold collection, I found a paper patched round nosed boolit mold that does the job quite nicely! Perfect fit really... Now, my brass is uniformly filled with a nice round dome of lead showing and there are only two steps beyond the casting session.
If I had the funds, I would have BT make a die which would be just one step but I'll do it this way for the time being.

Empty brass, of course.
The more round the better but I did squeeze a couple out of round ones in the mold and that worked too.




Here's the mold - empty and with a case in it.






Now, mold opened and the brass just falls out.







And the finished product after the 303British die and a light push in the nose die.
These are by far the most consistent boolits I have been able to make. Really nice looking and right about 320grs.

[Huvius]

Good job. To fill cases with molten lead, you could always drill a mold so the case sits flush under Sprue plate.. Insert case in mold, then pour it full, would get you pretty consistent results. D

Obviously, I should have listened to Dino way back when!!
Although, one could do just as mentioned above but make the cavity long enough to have a bit of lead past the case mouth for the nice looking exposed lead tip. Even a cylindrical protrusion will form as nicely as a dome or RN like my new method produces.

[midnight]

Glad I found this thread. I'm trying to do something very similar. I want to make some jacketed .416 bullets for a 416 GNR. I can make jackets from 30-30 brass. I size the body of the case a thousanth or two and shear the rim off. I was thinking of putting a core in the trimmed jacket and melting it with a torch to avoid making a core seater but if the jacket will fit in my 416, 330 gr mold i could fill it right from the pot & round the point with my .446 paper patch "money bullet" die. Worth a try. I'm going to run the sized 30-30 case into a cut off 40 S&W taper crimp die to saw off excess brass and then trim in a case trimmer before shearing off the rim. Should produce about a 325 gr jacketed round nose. Thanks for the idea of putting the jacket in the bullet mold.

Bob

[Huvius]

I would consider trying the 40S&W or even better the 10mm Auto brass and trying to size those down in steps.
Rooting through my junk today, I found some 40S&W based boolits I had sized all the way down to .411".
I don't recall how I did that but I must have done it with nothing special but what I have on hand.
I suspect that any grease groove mold will be too tight to work properly.
This may be a good excuse to buy a Lee mold blank and drill it to your specs. I'm thinking of doing the same.

I'll goof around some and see what it would take to make .416s - I think your .446 PP die will work just fine but you may need to resize the body of the boolit if it takes much force to form the nose. Sometimes they tend to expand a bit and need to be taken back to proper dia.
Please post your results here so we can see how you do!

[midnight]

Nominal base diameter of 30-30, 40 S&W, & 10 mm are all about the same at around .423 but in practice, I have fired 30-30s whose bases measure .416. I need a jacket a little under 1 1/4 in long to make a 350 gr bullet. 40 S&W are about .85 long & 10 mm are about .95 long and would do for a slightly lighter bullet. If I could manage enough exposed lead I might be able to approach 350 gr. I'll just have to try them all. I have NOEs bushing sizer bushings in .416, .417, & .418 in anticipation of powder coating an Accurate Molds 330 gr RN. I ordered the mold small at .416 anticipating the powder coat. Hopefully my .416 jackets will fit in it. Have to wait til the jacket maker gets here tomorrow ot Tuesday.

Bob

[Huvius]

I bet you could get close to 350gr with 10mm brass and a lead nose.
Of course you will lose some capacity in reducing the cases but mine as they are are 320grs with the 40S&W brass.
Another option may be starting with 30 Carbine brass. Certainly long enough but would take more steps to get sized down I'd think.
30-30 brass is pretty spendy for a project like this.

[bigjake]

I love trying to come up with methods of swaging/drawing different cases or tubing with loading dies or home machined dies from odd 7/8"-14 bolts and threaded rod. I am now into making .452 dia. 205 gr. projectiles for a 450 Bushmaster cal. AR. I bought an old .243 sizing die at a gun show very cheap. I cut the top off right to the top of the shoulder section inside the die. I found a crapload of .308 brass that has berdan primers. I saved them awhile ago thinking i might use them for something. well, i found a use; I machine off the rim to the bottom of the primer pocket, then cut them down to about .610, i then anneal them to a good glow with a propane torch. then tumble with ss pins. out comes a nice thick walled brass jacket. I cast some pure lead 9mm 124gr. bullets. lube up the jackets, drop in the core, then using the punch that comes with the .451 lee sizing kit, swage till you see the top of the jacket and the nose of the lead. adjust the die so you start pushing easy then tighten the die down progressively till it cams over tight. use a wood dowel or an aluminum punch to tap it out. dont use a steel punch it will come in contact with the sharp point of the die and nick it up. I havnt tested the bullets but im assuming that they will be accurate and fast, around 2,400 fps I forgot to say to run it through that lee .451 size die. It wont take much to push it through. I comes out of the .243 die about .457

[midnight]

You know how sometimes your brain takes a day off. Mine just did. I was all excited about putting my 416 jackets in my 416 bullet mold and filling it with molten lead. Somehow I neglected to notice that the mold used in the pics above was a core mold!!! My mold has conventional lube grooves. No way was my jacket going in there. DUMB. So now I'm making a core seat die. Die body is done & I'm halfway through machining the internal punch. I still might try melting the core in the jacket with a torch or maybe melt a whole batch in the oven.

Bob

[Huvius]

Somehow I neglected to notice that the mold used in the pics above was a core mold!!! My mold has conventional lube grooves. No way was my jacket going in there.

Bob

Exactly.
That is why I think a small investment in a Lee blank might be the hot ticket for making cores or filling brass.
https://leeprecision.com/custom-six-...old-block.html

They don't have a picture but I bet the mold could be clamped, center punch through the sprue plate holes and drill out to whatever you need or maybe better (cheaper) buy a Lee six cavity in a smaller bullet and drill that out. After all, the "pilot" holes are already done!

[GONRA]

El Cheapo GONRA sez - bigjake REALLY has all this figgered out!

[midnight]

I finally got some nice 416 bullets made. Richard Corbins 416 jacket maker worked just as he said it would & made perfect jackets that were 413 diameter. I made a core seat die that brings them to .4155. The jackets were trimmed to 1.095 before the rim was sheared off. Made some nice cute little brass washers. After the cores were seated I pointed them up in a .442 paper patch bullet die and another problem arose. I got a nice looking round nose pear shaped bullet with a .430 middle, too big to size down. Solution: My 357 Herret seat die has an id of .416 so I first ran the seated core into it and started to form a nose, then into the point form just a little, then into the Herret die to take out the little body swell, then back and forth a couple times til I got the nose I wanted. Guess this will have to do unless I can lay my hands on a 416 point form die. I ended up with a perfect 416' 330gr, round nose bullet but a lot of work went into each one.

Bob

PS: I do have a Lee 6 cavity mold blank so I might try making adjustable cavities to fit my jackets. That still wouldn't the point form problem.

[bigjake]

Its a challenge to make nice looking, accurate shooting projectiles with what most folks call junk or scrap, using dies you already have or homemade in your home machine shop.