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Thread: Gong size

  1. #21
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    I have an old sight card I found in some papers that came with a Ballard rifle I purchased. I had no idea what the marks on the Ballard Long Range sight might be in MOA, so had been guessing mostly. The lowest setting was for 200 yds. and said 43. The 300 was 66, and 400 was 80. It went close to around 15 per 100 yds., but not exactly. Once it got to 700 yds. that stopped, and 700 was 111, but 800 was 128, and 900 was 147, 1000 was 168.
    But whoever had made up the card, and whatever caliber Ballard it was for had gotten pretty close! It puts me in the ballpark for both my .40-90 Ballard, and my .44-100 Ballard.

  2. #22
    Boolit Man
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    I find that a bulls eye, 5 to 6inches at 100 yards, scaled out to what ever the distance is, is generally ideal, so for me cutting your steel in half would be perfect. The other big factor mentioned earlier, is the color and background of the target. Given the right contrast and light, a target half sized of what I mentioned may stand out like a beacon, and in the other extreme of contrast and conditions, may totally wash out. If you said what direction your range faced, I missed it, but contrast and visibility can vary greatly from am to pm, especially if not north facing, making the bigger target all the better.

    Jackpine

  3. #23
    Boolit Man
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    Well, my quickload quicktarget was a lot more on the money today. It has sight correction in clicks, which I changed to be 1" since the small scale part of the Vernier is 1". The sight I have has 4 small lines, then the 5th is 1/4", then 4 small lines and the 5th 1/2". I have it sighted in at 150m, so quickload target said take the 150m setting (1/4") and add 25 clicks for 300m, so I moved it to 1/2" and shot and had to add about 3 inches or 3 small divisions on the left part of the sight and then hit at 300m. I next went to 400m and QL said add 45 clicks, so I moved to another 20 clicks or points and it was on enough that I hit that gong. Then I moved to 500m and it said to add another 20 for that, but I had to add 23. I did not manage to hit the 18x24 at 500 today, but I scared it.
    so, with a sharps 45-70, 32" barrel, 520gr Postell bullet, loaded at 1175 fps the chart said
    zero at 150m.....1/4"
    no gong at 200m
    300m (328yds) add 25 clicks or points (took 28)
    400m (437 yds) add 20 clicks or points
    500m (546 yds) add 20 clicks or points (took 23

    oh, and the gongs are painted black against our light tan colored berm and stands out quite well. Our range we shoot straight south.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Gongs stand out well on light colored background, but black sights wont show up well on a black gong for my eyes. White works best for me to see my sights, and the gong.

  5. #25
    Boolit Man
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    yeah, I painted the gongs white and then the range officer took his can of black and coated them black. There are mostly scope shooters out at the range and they paint the gongs black along with the chain or strap that they hang by. Those scoped idiots shoot the chains and straps just to see them fall. I would rather them be white....but, I did not have a say in it. Oh, well. The black does stand out good for me, but like you say, the black sights against black is not so good, but at 3,4 and 500 meters, the sight is a lot larger than the gong anyway. I recently changed front aperature to the cross hair that I took a little painters brush and coated the cross hairs a little to make them stand out more. The very fine one that came with the sight was so thin that I had a lot of trouble trying it at first. Now, with the hairs a little thicker, it makes it a lot better. I like the cross hairs for gong shooting and the lollipop for shooting round paper target black centers.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    When I first shot my Ballard Pacific in .40-85 Ballard it had the original combination globe front sight. I thought the thin post inside the little globe would be just the ticket for longer distances. I sighted in the gun at 100 and 200 yds., and it was very nice. But them I loaded up 60 rds. of ammo and took it to our long range shoot. It was pitiful, as the very thin wire like post simply disappeared on the sidehill at even 400 yds.!
    Fortunately a friend took pity and removed his front sight off one of his Rolling Block rifles, and I installed it on my Ballard. Day and night difference, and I could see his .045" post even out to 990 yds. on the mostly dirt and sagebrush background.
    My Pacific is still sitting since late July with no front sight. Haven't got one like my friend's and don't want to put the old one back on it. Those combination sights are very collectible, but not what I want for a great sight picture!

  7. #27
    Boolit Man
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    I have never tried the post in my aperature set, may give it a go some day. The thickened xhairs show very well for me out to 500m and that is as far as we can shoot at our range, so I don't have a need for a different one right now.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
    Chill Wills's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marlinman93 View Post
    I have an old sight card I found in some papers that came with a Ballard rifle I purchased. I had no idea what the marks on the Ballard Long Range sight might be in MOA, so had been guessing mostly. The lowest setting was for 200 yds. and said 43. The 300 was 66, and 400 was 80. It went close to around 15 per 100 yds., but not exactly. Once it got to 700 yds. that stopped, and 700 was 111, but 800 was 128, and 900 was 147, 1000 was 168.
    But whoever had made up the card, and whatever caliber Ballard it was for had gotten pretty close! It puts me in the ballpark for both my .40-90 Ballard, and my .44-100 Ballard.
    Boy - that sure sounds like the delta for the sight being a vernier scale; ten thousandths movement being about moa.
    That is moving just like it should for that kind of rifle and chambering.
    Chill Wills

  9. #29
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by shafer44 View Post
    I have never tried the post in my aperature set, may give it a go some day. The thickened xhairs show very well for me out to 500m and that is as far as we can shoot at our range, so I don't have a need for a different one right now.
    An aperture, for most of us, as in a larger, round, with a kinda thick ringed annulus (aperture) and old eyes work best for most target rifle needs, white or black targets. Try it sometime. Check out Distant Thunder web-site for great front sight inserts for older eyes. or any eyes for that mater.

    (annulus - a ring-shaped object, structure, or region.)
    Chill Wills

  10. #30
    Boolit Master

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    Keep in mind you don't want to make it a "seeing" contest but a shooting contest. When painted a gong does show hits very well and group size can be seen. A gong that's hard to see induces a lot of strain and becomes more a seeing contest than a shooting contest.

  11. #31
    Boolit Man
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    I just have to say that a 24" tall x 18" wide gong or actually just a rectangular fixed metal plate at 500m in itself is very small. And regardless of which sight, you have to be able to see the target before you can shoot it. I am happy that they let me put up MY SIZE gongs the other day. It gets boring to shoot holes in paper. We have one of the ranges that has 100yds, 200yds and if you are lucky enough to get one of the 2 end shooting rests, you can shoot 300 and 500 off the benches here, but those are taken almost every time I go out. I also wish we did not have so many members, but living in a city with 150K and a sister city 20 miles away with 160K means there are going to be lots of members.

  12. #32
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by country gent View Post
    Keep in mind you don't want to make it a "seeing" contest but a shooting contest. When painted a gong does show hits very well and group size can be seen. A gong that's hard to see induces a lot of strain and becomes more a seeing contest than a shooting contest.
    Good luck seeing hits at very long distances! And especially so if you're shooting very many people on the same gong! Even my much loved Kowa scope wont show hits beyond 650 yds. well enough to discern easily. And considering how long it takes to walk to 650 yds. or beyond, and halt all shooting during that time; we paint once in the morning and not again all day.

  13. #33
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shafer44 View Post
    I just have to say that a 24" tall x 18" wide gong or actually just a rectangular fixed metal plate at 500m in itself is very small. And regardless of which sight, you have to be able to see the target before you can shoot it. I am happy that they let me put up MY SIZE gongs the other day. It gets boring to shoot holes in paper. We have one of the ranges that has 100yds, 200yds and if you are lucky enough to get one of the 2 end shooting rests, you can shoot 300 and 500 off the benches here, but those are taken almost every time I go out. I also wish we did not have so many members, but living in a city with 150K and a sister city 20 miles away with 160K means there are going to be lots of members.
    Besides those gongs give such a nice tone to tell you if you hit or miss! And I love the time lapse it takes from firing to the sound coming back too! Especially as you get out farther with old single shots that leave the bore around 1350 fps!

  14. #34
    Boolit Man
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    yeah on the sound when you hit. Last weekend, when I finally saw what I was doing wrong with the sight adjustment, I finally starting seeing my shots hit the dirt when I missed, so that made it a lot easier to "dial in". It is impossible to know where you hit if you can't see the dirt fly. Anyway, I was shooting and my new friends that were spotting and were talking to me, so I pulled my earmuffs back a little to hear them and some guy 15ft from me let one go from his M1 Garrand. It has been a week and my right ear still has a ringing to it. The next thing I did was to order a pair of earmuffs that has the sound amplifier. Today, I shot with those and man, what a difference! First, no worrying about someone shooting when I was not prepared, second, when I hit the gongs.....I heard it. That makes shooting so much more enjoyable to hear your shot hit something. I am still not there yet....to 500m, but I am hitting pretty consistently at 300m. As a long time "scoped" rifle shooter, it is learning all over, especially with the Vernier tang sight and spirit globe front. There were a couple of really nice guys shooting scoped rifles today and they were nice, but not very good of a shot. They were having trouble hitting a 14x17 gong at 150m...., there is also a fixed 9x9 metal plate, so every now and then I had to switch my sight back to 150m and shoot it for them. They were really kind of funny, as they admitted not being able to shoot that well. I don't think they started off at the paper range, to get their scopes tuned in. Oh, well. I let them shoot the Sharps and one of them hit it 2 out of 3.....said he may have to get a Sharps soon. Shooting is a sport that I really enjoy, but hanging out shooting with others that like it as much as me just makes it that much more fun. I too like the fact that when I shoot that 1175fps 520gr bullet, I squeeze the trigger, and then look to see if it hit, and then hear the sound.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master marlinman93's Avatar
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    It's always a problem shooting long range if you can't see bullet impact, or your spotter can't see it. I've often moved off the target and picked an object on the hillside or berm to shoot at instead. Sometimes that will give me a better indication of bullet impact and allow me to know where it's actually hitting. Then I can make sight adjustments to go back on the dingers and know where to aim.

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