Mishap with inertia puller

[DLCTEX]

I stopped by a friends house Friday to drop off some boolits I had cast for him and found him a bit shaken. He had pulled bullets from 300 Wby ammo using a Frankford Arsenal inertia puller and on the nineth round a primer fired on the rebound of the blow that pulled the bullet. The bullet and powder were in the bottom unburned and the primer backed out of the case. He is sure that the primer didn't fire until the tool was up from the rebound. He was using the collets that came with the tool, he did not hit anything on the rebound. Why would a magnum primer not have enough flash to ignite the powder in front of the case? The pop was rather loud. The primer may or may not have backed out before firing as he was having trouble with loose pockets on that lot of brass, but wouldn't the inertia tend to drive the primer in, not out. There was smoke from the primer but no burned powder grains. The case was still seated firmly in the collet. We have been really dry, but if static electricity fired the primer ( is this possible?) why was the powder not ignited? The bullets had a heavy crimp and took several hard blows to pull the bullets striking a flat anvil spot on a vise mounted on a wooden bench. We can find no answer, but he is reluctent to use the tool anymore even though he has used the tool to pull may bullets and loaned it to a friend who used it to pull 50 boolits the day before to check powder problems. Any thoughts ? DALE

[HeavyMetal]

Over sensative primer or it could be a primer was working it's way out of the pocket, you'd mentioned loose primer pockets in these case's, and when he whacked it the last time the primer reseated and fired!

I have had case's that I was pulling boolits on work themselves up and out of the collet while pounding them on the concrete, no reason to think a primer couldn't do the same thing.

My thought on this deal: primer goes off but round is not contained in anything to maintain pressure! The pressure of the primer pops the bollit out of the case, and with even less pressure the powder does not ignite.

I have seen loaded rounds dumped in an open camp fire, yes that guy was an idiot, and they made less noise than a fire cracker! Mostly just small pops and then a flare up of flame when the powder was ignited by the camp fire.

I will suggest your friend needs to " get back on the horse" I think this an extrodinary and rare occurance that won't happen again as long as he pays attention to primer pockets in the future.

Glad to hear he's O.K.

[oneokie]

No idea as to why the primer went off. As to why the powder did not ignite, the primer flash was some distance from the powder in the puller, thus the flame duration could have lacked enough time to ignite the powder. You did not state whether the primer blew its self out of the primer pocket when it went off. If it did, another reason as to why the powder did not ignite.

A technique to use when using an inertia puller on heavily crimped or mil surp ammo with sealed bullets is to run the rounds into a seater die to move the bullet deeper into the case to loosen the crimp or break the sealer bond between the bullet and case neck.

[be603]

thanks for this one more reminder to overconfident me -- safety glasses. always.

[35remington]

Don't forget the bullet was not confined by the barrel, nor the case by a chamber, so the pressure never really got high enough to light the fire. I would expect that the case was mostly full of powder and the powder not really all that far from the primer.

One of the primer's effects is to blow everything forward as well as ignite the powder (witness powder impact marks on the base of gaschecks and plainbase bullets).

In the absence of conditions that confine the cartridge, the powder will not ignite reliably.

Especially slow burning powders.

[DLCTEX]

Just to clarify, the bullet dislodged with an audible click which he was listening for. as stated, the primer was backed out, but still barely in the pocket. The bullet and powder were outside the case (he's pretty sure) when the primer popped, as he heard the bullet click and the tool rebounded up before the pop. Ever hear of a hangfire with a primer? I think that the fact that the powder was out of the case saved him from a big bang. The powder was IMR 7828 SC, maybe it's hard to light? May be a good deal it wasn't Unique. My counsel was that he'd been doing it for years without incident, so in absence of evidence of a problem, go back with confidence. Easy for me to say, it didn't go bang in front of my face. DALE

[runfiverun]

either h-metals first thought.
or he crushed the priming material, and the powder moving back and forth in the case
caused static and fired the dust from the primer.

[35remington]

" I think that the fact that the powder was out of the case saved him from a big bang. The powder was IMR 7828 SC, maybe it's hard to light?"

Gotta agree there.

[454PB]

All of the above as to why the primer ignited. I quit using inertia bullet pullers many years ago for these very reasons. I'd rather mar or even ruin a boolit or bullet than be whacking away on loaded rounds.

[unclebill]

i dont care if they are safe or not .
those things have always made me a bit nervous.

hmmm...
i wonder if this will blow?
WHACK! WHACK! WHACK!
ive got one but i never use it.

ive always wondered about beating it on concrete or metal.
couldnt they shatter?

[Dale53]

I have seen inertia pullers break from banging on concrete.

I use a 2x4x4 block as a strike surface (with the block resting on concrete).

The block absorbs some of the impact (hopefully cushion enough to preclude a primer going off). I have never really like using one but have on many an occasion with good results.

Now, I limit it to full wad cutters. Otherwise, I use a press and vise grips to pull bullets and just recast the bullets.

Dale53

[carpetman]

I have inertia pullers and really find no use for them. For jacketed bullets, the RCBS collet puller is far superior---both in speed and ease. The RCBS isnt worth much on cast bullets---for cast, take your die out of the press--run bullet up through the hole clamp onto the bullet with pair of vice grips and lower the ram and bullet is pulled. Usually ruined---easy fix remelt and re-pour. I do have a solid end grain mesquite stump to bang the inertia puller on,and exercise is only use I see for it.

[jhalcott]

I use a flat piece of 3/4" thick lead as an anvil to bang the inertial puller on. I use a pair of wire stripper pliers with a notch ground in the cutter part of the jaws. This gives me 4 small points to grasp the bullet as I pull down on the ram to remove it from the case. Even cast bullets are MINIMALLY damaged using this tool. It also prevents damage to the press threads caused by hard vise grip jaws crushing against the theads .

[remy3424]

I have inertia pullers and really find no use for them. For jacketed bullets, the RCBS collet puller is far superior---both in speed and ease. The RCBS isnt worth much on cast bullets---for cast, take your die out of the press--run bullet up through the hole clamp onto the bullet with pair of vice grips and lower the ram and bullet is pulled. Usually ruined---easy fix remelt and re-pour. I do have a solid end grain mesquite stump to bang the inertia puller on,and exercise is only use I see for it.

+1 to what he said..

You do have to invest in a collet for each caliber though...watch for them at gun shows, $5 each often

[jimkim]

I think I was in this same exact thread on another forum. It's déjà vu all over again. I want a puller like Uncle Bill's. In the meantime I will use my Peggy powered adapter with my Quinetics puller. I am thinking of adding a rubber foot from a crutch to it.

[mike in co]

i think i would look very closely at the primer, from inside.

normal ignition is impact. if no movement of the anvil to the cup..( normally cup to anvil)..then no impact.

lacking impact, i would say static electricity.


mike in co

[jhalcott]

I saw a clip of a guy using a static generator TRYING to ignite Black powder. He said that it couldn't be done. Lots of little lightning bolts but NO sparks or flames! Has any one ever attempted to set off a rifle primer using static electricity??

[tom barthel]

It happened to me once. I was working with surplus foreign military ammo. The primer popped, I threw the tool with the round in it into a bucket of water. I didn't know what would happen next. I was concerned the powder may go off. I left it in the water over night. I seem to recall it was berdan (sp) primed. I'm not sure byt, it may have been Egyptian 8mm. There were no marks on the outside of the primer. Never happened again. Thank God.

[yarro]

Had it happen with a .38 Special round. The plastic tool actually cracked and the powder burned with enough pressure to knock the case out of the tool. The powder did not burn completely though. I use a collet puller now.

-Yarro

[Willbird]

All of the above as to why the primer ignited. I quit using inertia bullet pullers many years ago for these very reasons. I'd rather mar or even ruin a boolit or bullet than be whacking away on loaded rounds.

I once had to pull SIX HUNDRED 308 rounds with an RCBS wacker puller, not a single problem, but my primers were not slide hammering in the pockets either .

Dad made me pull them because I loaded ammo without tightening the lock nut on the uniflow....I WEIGHED every powder charge just to prove they would all have been safe, but dad was RIGHT to make me pull them, I was 14 and he was a lot older and wiser .

I do prefer a collet puller today, but I am unafraid to use a wacker if as is very common the round is such that I do not have a collet the proper dia. I see no way to use a collet puller on 38 wadcutters either ??

Bill