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Thread: 1886 Winchester Barreled in 348

  1. #41
    Boolit Master
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    All the other parts carry 64 markings.

  2. #42
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    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
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    L&K scope repair. Call him you may not have to remove the rings to fix it.

    http://www.lkscoperepair.com/

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  3. #43
    Boolit Master
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    Removing the scope from the rings is easy. The front and rear rings hold the scope in by a compression fitting and lock ring (clear in your drawings). The lock ring may have a set screw. Soak everything in Penetrating oil for a day, remove the ocular lens housing, loosen the lock rings and the rings will slide off the scope. DON"T mess with that old K2.5. Probably has delaminated lenses. Buy a fine one on Ebay.

    Get some dies and a mold and load up some light loads with Trail Boss. They won't hurt you or take apart the new scope.

    Let's stop "jawing" and get the old gal shootin' again !

  4. #44
    Boolit Master Eddie17's Avatar
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    All ready loaded an shot my cast bullets thru this Winchester. They were my first rifle cast boolits.
    Need to site in the cast boolit loads on the iron sites, while I work out the K2.5 scope rebuild!

  5. #45
    Boolit Master Eddie17's Avatar
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    Thank you W-R-Buchanan will try to contact after the long WE.

  6. #46
    Boolit Master
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    My 1894/64 arrived. Everything is 64 except the action. It has the steel widows peak buttplate. Stock is checkered but no gripcap. The barrel has no WP or P in an oval.

    Starting to smell like some other "lunchbox" guns I have had from Remington, Winchester and Savage.
    (257 Roberts 721, 55 30-30 with no serial #, not ground off, M23 in 44-40)

  7. #47
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie17 View Post
    while I work out the K2.5 scope rebuild!
    Okay, knock yourself out, after months, you'll be told it's trash. Meanwhile you could have been shooting.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-3-WEAVER...8AAOSw4HxZmEw4

  8. #48
    Boolit Master
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    Parson's site says they do not work on Weavers and LK charges $175 to rebuild your scope no matter what it needs. It is cheaper to buy another scope.
    The guy at Ironsight usually has a 12 to 16 MONTH lead time.
    http://ironsightinc.com/index.php?route=common/weaver

    There is also a repair shop in Florida but they seem to be difficult to get information out of.
    Good luck on the scope rebuild. Optics people don't really seem interested in business.
    I have one of the very nice Redfield 12X fixed scope that only needs the inner surface of the objective lens cleaned.
    LK refused to do that work but did offer to rebuild the scope for $175 . Since I refused he offered to buy my scope cheap.
    So I don't know if that is how those guys get repair parts or if they repair the old scopes and flip them....

    Be very careful according to some of these threads. There is significant negative input on most of the scope repair outfits.

    http://www.opticstalk.com/where-to-g...opic39323.html

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...any-in-Florida


    About your rifle.
    Back in the 1960s, Numrich advertised M71 .348 Win barrels and M71 locking bolts at very reasonable prices in the American Rifleman.
    During that time frame the American Rifleman seemed dominated by articles intended for old guys on the east coast and in New England. These old guys sole interests seemed be collecting and NOT shooting. As a result many of the letter to the editors asked questions about odd ball rifles.
    One of those odd ball rifles was a M71 in .33 Win. The American Rifleman said that rifle was probably re-barreled at the factory. But the AR also said that there were records of 1 or 2 M71 rifles originally built to order in .33 Win. caliber.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie17 View Post
    All ready loaded an shot my cast bullets thru this Winchester. They were my first rifle cast boolits.
    Need to site in the cast boolit loads on the iron sites, while I work out the K2.5 scope rebuild!
    Last edited by EDG; 09-02-2017 at 10:14 AM.
    EDG

  9. #49
    Boolit Master
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    Think about it a minute.
    You have a rifle action that is a fixed length. You cannot make the ammo much longer to get more velocity. All you can do is either raise the pressure or make the case fatter or both. The .33 Win base is only about .500. The .348 is larger on the base at .550. So the .33 Win does not have the ability to match the .348 in any way except length. Using a larger base was nothing but a engineering requirement to get great case capacity and had nothing to do with preventing fitting a .348 barrel to another rifle. The .348 rim is the same diameter as the .33 Win rim.

    Quote Originally Posted by Old-Win View Post
    I really doubt that Winchester would rebarrel that rifle. First, it was born during the BP era and those rifles operated at about 26-28,000 PSI. Steels were not nearly that good at that time. By the time the .33 Winchester came out with smokeless powder, pressures started to rise. Chrome moly steels were in use and advertised as "Winchester Proof Steel" in the barrels and probably the actions. By the time the Model 71 came out, Winchester was advertising "Winchester Proof Steel" for added strength. The operating pressure of the .348 Winchester approaches 44,000 PSI. I have a hunch, that the reason Winchester used the large base on the .348 is so it could not be easily fitted to another rifle. The 45-70 case that the .33 Winchester is based, on has plenty of room for powder to match the .348 so why didn't Winchester just neck down the 45-70 case to .348 and build the Mod 71 on that case. This is just conjecture on my part but something you may want to look in to.
    EDG

  10. #50
    Boolit Master pietro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDG View Post

    Back in the 1960s, Numrich advertised M71 .348 Win barrels and M71 locking bolts at very reasonable prices in the American Rifleman.

    During that time frame the American Rifleman seemed dominated by articles intended for old guys on the east coast and in New England.

    HEY ! ! I represent that !


    .
    Experience is a wonderful thing - It lets you recognize a mistake, when you make it again.

  11. #51
    Boolit Master Eddie17's Avatar
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    Well I have one. Waiting on factory documation!
    Last edited by Eddie17; 09-07-2017 at 03:10 PM. Reason: Spelling

  12. #52
    Boolit Master Eddie17's Avatar
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    If I'm still posting on my link?
    I have removed the rings from the W2.5 scope!
    A long story short. Bought a couple of tools, rings removed.
    Pictures and details to follow!
    Eddie
    Last edited by Eddie17; 09-07-2017 at 04:08 PM. Reason: Spell check

  13. #53
    Boolit Master woodbutcher's Avatar
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    And the adventure continues.
    Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
    Leo
    People never lie so much as after a hunt,during a war,or before an election.
    Otto von Bismarck

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by missionary5155 View Post
    Greetings
    Take a close look at the cartridge lifter. 348 rims are much larger in diameter and require that the lifter be opened up so the fatter diameter 348 rim will slide in to the rear of the lifter.
    We built a 50 Alaskan couple years back and opening that lifter for that fat rim was fun. Near the same diameter as the 348.
    Mike in Peru
    I have a couple of WW cases in front of me, .348 converted to 8x60R Portuguese and .45-70 converted into .40-65. The rims of both measure .601in. Thickness is also within .001in. of being the same. I wouldn't advocate this conversion, but I think a .45-90 cartridge lifter would be easily converted, or usable unconverted with .348 rounds a little under the maximum overall length.

    I think an 1886 receiver most likely would be unimpaired by un-hotrodded .348 rounds - if you like "most likely". The receiver isn't the whole story, though. The 1886 ejector extends all the way to the centre of the case-head, with a little half-moon where it forms part of the firing-pin hole. This was changed as early as the 1892 and 1894, and I don't know why they didn't alter the 1886 at that time. although they did in the 71, and so do some modern manufacturers of 1886 clones.

    The ejector head can break off. I have heard of one being shot with no ill effects, with moderate but not BP equivalent loads in modern brass. But no ill effects all the time? I wouldn't want to count on that. At the very least I would check for dirt or rust under the ejector head of any old 1886.

    We never know what might happen in factory assembly. Apart from what was intended, there are mistakes, or dishonest employees lunchbox (or in this case trouser-leg) guns. I suppose there is a very slim chance that it could be one of Winchester's own developmental guns, and then we are talking real value. Otherwise I think it is most likely a gunsmith or amateur rebarrelling, with a spare barrel or one taken from a damaged 71. This would lower the collector value a bit, but I think not disastrously. Despite Texasnative's experience, shootable 1886s in such beautiful condition, even refinished, seldom go for peanuts. I am still waiting for one. A provable factory rebarrelling seems improbable, although product liability in the 30s wasn't what it is today. Does anybody have a 1930s catalogue which includes the parts? In the 1899 one I have, they offer dire warnings against smokeless reloading. So maybe they do against using a 71 barrel in an 1886.

    That rifle has surely done quite a bit of shooting. But I would limit it (and be very glad to have it) to reloads of little more than .33 performance. There are situations in which a flatter trajectory would be useful, but nothing in the western hemisphere, and very little in the eastern, needs more impact than the .33.
    Last edited by Ballistics in Scotland; 09-08-2017 at 02:23 PM.

  15. #55
    Boolit Master Eddie17's Avatar
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    Thank you B in Scotland,
    I have contacted an paid for documation from Cody on this rifle, thank you all for supplied info!
    I have shot both, reloads using factory bullets, and my cast boolits.
    Both with out the scope as it is very dull to look thru.
    Need to dial in Iron sites.
    My first goal with this rifle was to get the period scope, on the Whittmore Scope carrier usable, second to optain as much history as I can on how this 1886 Winchester became barreled in 348 WIN.
    Will post pics of better quality soon.
    Thanks again to all information provided!
    Great site!
    Ed

  16. #56
    We look forward to the Cody information.

    I agree, you can probably find a scope like this with clear optics for less than having one rebuilt, maybe even less than having it cleaned. I had a steel Weaver K1.5 of the 1970s repaired in the UK, and I wouldn't call it excessively expensive or slow, considering that he had to grind the edges of a new eyepiece lens to the right diameter. but I'm sure I could have found a good one for no more. Still, I had owned that one from new, and the memories locked up in it are mine, which makes a difference.

  17. #57
    Boolit Master



    missionary5155's Avatar
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    Good morning
    Well one thing is for sure. The Winchester 1886 was designed to be strong. If your 348 was mine I would enjoy it and shoot it with just like any other rifle we end up with. Start with a good cast bullet properly fitted to that throat and let the fun begin. Look for an 80% power load and start up the hill.
    We have an 86 (jap) in 50 Alaskan. There is a massive amount of strength in that action type. Yes I am sure it has limitations. But your rifle will let you know when you are approaching the place to tone it down.
    I sure do want to read about all the enjoyment you will have.
    Mike inPeru
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Home built Matchlock similar to what an early 1600 Colonial soldier might have.

  18. #58
    Boolit Master
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    What a cool old setup. I would definitely get the scope fixed.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  19. #59
    Boolit Master

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    I have worked on more than a few 1886s and converted some to 50 EX. The rim size on the 348 and 50EX is very close to that of the 45-70. The carrier on the 86 in 50 EX needs to be opened up, not for the rim, but for the fatter body. The carrier has a slight curve at the rear that allows the 45-70 to go all the way back but the 50 will not make the curve. I made up a 4 barrel set for an 86 takedown and one was 50 EX and one 348. When test firing I had some 348 Buffalo Bore ammo that jammed the gun, could not open after firing. It worked fine with Winchester factory 348. The locking lugs on the 71 have a little more slant which probably makes it a little easier to open. When taking an 86 to 50EX the feed rail need to be opened up about .020", the end of the lever needs to be made thiner so the loading gate will open more and the inside of the frame needs a little work. Sometime the mag tube needs a little removed on one side. The model 71 has a different design carrier. Not sure what alterations the 71 will need to get it to feed a 50 but I'm in the process of doing one for myself.
    John Taylor, Taylor Machine, gunsmith

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check