44 mag devistator vs Lee 310 cast boolit for black bear

[Loudenboomer]

Tripplebeards I'm glad dad is backing up the youngster. I've been teaching firearms safety to kids of that age group for many years. Most kids lack hunting skill and basic marksmanship to dependably hit a bear spot on at that age. Plenty of exceptions to the rule. Especially if dad has been working with him. You mentioned small for his age. Just teaching proper hold in the class room can be a challenge with the small ones. Imagine us trying to shoot a round of skeet with a shotgun 7 feet long. A firearm with a youth stock sure does help. If you do use the 44 mag. either load should be fine if the mark is hit. My suggestion would be have the youngster shoot 50 rds. 44 special factory power level loads form a tree stand or blind that will approximate his hunting site. Lastly I'd spend plenty of time teaching bullet angles of pass threw and how that will make or break the shot. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for taking the time to help a kid hunt!

[Tripplebeards]

I let my buddies kid shoot my 77/44 two days ago. It's the smallest, lightest rifle that I believe would kill a bear efficiently in my arsenal. I didn't have him try any full loads but trail boss loads. I started him with 6g, then 7g, and then 7.5g. He is extremely small for his age...can't weigh 50/60lbs so I didn't want to make him recoil shy n scare him. That kid can hit bottles one after another at 20 to 25 yards with the 7.5g load of trail boss and likes the load because of the lack of recoil. Of course he wanted his dad to buy him one right away!lol. I loaded the 7-7.5BH devastors with this load. I PC and GC them. In Lyman's book it said the velocity was 986fps but there was no barrel length.

I shot through a steel drum at 50 yards and the in and out holes were two to three times the size of my 13.4BH devistator loaded with 24g of W296 so it looks like they would put a big bleeder hole in the bear. That softer lead looks like it's expanding extremely well at the lower velocity.

Would this light load work on a black bear or should I load it a little hotter for him? What is the minimum velocity/energy to harvest a deer or bear effectively? I would assume these have to be the same or hotter than a 44 special load which would get the job done.



I let the kid shoot a good 50-60 rounds through it now so I might have to let him borrow it...since he's put more down the pipe than I have to date.

[white eagle]

check the dnr website to be legal
last thing you want is to have a wounded black bear to chase after

[Tripplebeards]

I do have Lee 310's I can load up as well. I just don't think I'll get as large of an entry and exit hole with a flat nose at lower velocities.

[Tripplebeards]

check the dnr website to be legal
last thing you want is to have a wounded black bear to chase after

I just checked. I didn't see anything listed like they did in the past for pistol MV. If I remember right years ago they use to have a listing for pistols. The requirement if I remember was anything could be used that had over a 1000 or 1100fps MV as a minimum.

The other idea I had was load a few up with normal powders with minimum charges and sneak them into the rifle the day of the hunt. He is going to still have the confidence of the low powered load(and think it's low powered till the shot). I would think the adrenaline might take care of some of the felt recoil as well. It's only going to be one shot and the bear will either drop or run.

[Blackwater]

Whenever the subject of bears comes up, I think of the two blacks that were shot here in Ga. about 2 years ago I think it was. They were shot up in N. Ga., and each was over 800 lbs! Some grizzlys don't get that big! And when hunting quarry that can "bite back," I'll always go with the heavier and more deeply penetrating bullet, so that means I'd go with the big Lee 310 gr. solid point. Expansion is good, but ONLY when you've ensured you can penetrate all the way to the vitals on the biggest critter you're likely to encounter. Nobody goes afield expecting to see an 800 lb. black bear, but ..... it happens. One of them was shot by a 15 yr. old boy with a M-94 Win. in .30/30. When the big bear came out, he didn't know anything else to do but shoot! Thank God his Dad or whoever had taught him to shoot well! I think that one was the one that went 840 something, and the other one went 810-820 something, IIRC.
a
Blacks CAN be dangerous, though most won't be. It's a lot like hunting hogs. Once in a while, a big 600 pounder that has reverted back to the Russian profile will come out, and then the "fun" begins! One of my cousins shot one in the Savannah River swamp that went 600+, and the story was written up in the Sunday edition of the Savannah Morning News. It covered the whole back page, and about half the inside of the back page. Reading it would get any hunter's blood pumping! The first and only time I've ever seen a good hunting story in our local papers! It was shot a total of 19 times, mostly with shotguns. That huge gristle plate stopped both buckshot AND slugs!!! My cousin heard it was coming over the CB and got out his '06., and wound up killing it. That hog's head, without any of the shoulders in the mount, stuck out nearly 4' from the wall!!! The taxidermist did a great job of putting a really good snarl on its face, too. The tushes didn't LOOK all that large, because in comparison to the rest of the hog, they were just "average size," but they were plenty big enough to cut up anything it decided needed to be cut up. And I can't imagine the strength a hog that big would have!

So ..... I'd go with the Lee bullet. Deeper penetration ENSURES you'll have what's needed, even if the "bull of the woods" comes out on you. As the old Boy Scouts said, in their motto, "Be prepared!" Just my 2 cents' worth, anyway.

[bronte454]

Do not have ANY experience with bear but have plenty with deer . The devistator from 900-1100 with that soft bullet will go through through a deer end to end at least to 90 yards. The hard flat nose that fast just zips through no expansion . Just my experience. Good on ya for the time and input best of luck

[Tripplebeards]

Do not have ANY experience with bear but have plenty with deer . The devistator from 900-1100 with that soft bullet will go through through a deer end to end at least to 90 yards. The hard flat nose that fast just zips through no expansion . Just my experience. Good on ya for the time and input best of luck

Good to hear, black bear are thin skinned like deer so it sounds like as long as my load chronies fast enough my shooter will be good to go.

[Tripplebeards]

This is a picture of the 55 gal drum I shot through at 50 yards the other day. The top four holes are using a BH of 13.4 and 24g of w296...it has some recoil! More than I expected from my little rifle. Still manageable but your not going to want to target shoot with the load all day long with the load. I wasn't shooting off a bench but just leaning against my truck. It seemed pretty accurate but I loaded it a hair to long. After the first shot I aimed for the hole and shot twice in the same hole next to it. At 1.663" it would catch just a little in my magazine.

The bottom two holes were from 7.5g of trailboss and 7.5BH. They made 2 times plus bigger hole going in as well. Definitely expanding.

[1bluehorse]

[QUOTE=Blackwater;4137451]Whenever the subject of bears comes up, I think of the two blacks that were shot here in Ga. about 2 years ago I think it was. They were shot up in N. Ga., and each was over 800 lbs! Some grizzlys don't get that big! And when hunting quarry that can "bite back," I'll always go with the heavier and more deeply penetrating bullet, so that means I'd go with the big Lee 310 gr. solid point. Expansion is good, but ONLY when you've ensured you can penetrate all the way to the vitals on the biggest critter you're likely to encounter. Nobody goes afield expecting to see an 800 lb. black bear, but ..... it happens. One of them was shot by a 15 yr. old boy with a M-94 Win. in .30/30. When the big bear came out, he didn't know anything else to do but shoot! Thank God his Dad or whoever had taught him to shoot well! I think that one was the one that went 840 something, and the other one went 810-820 something, IIRC.


Whom ever shot those two bears should have had them weighed on a certified scale with a witness, both of those bears are at least 200lbs over the Georgia state record black bear which is 601 lbs.

[Tripplebeards]

I chronied the trail boss loads today. They averaged 963fps. I got him shooting the same boolit with 21g of h110 that was flying out of the muzzel at 1575fps. He is going to shoot the h110 load. He shot it 50 plus times today and never missed one water bottle at 25 yards! My question with the increase in velocity should I stay with the 7.5bh boolit which is my plan or use the 13.4 bh boolits i previously casted? I have both casted and ready to go. I think the the softer alloy will expand more violently, cause more shock and trauma, a bigger blood trail, and hopefully put it on the ground quicker with correct shot placement.

[siamese4570]

I was playing with the Lee 310 in my sbh hunter. Testing penetration through water filled milk jugs. Couldn't stop it with 12 - 1 gallon milk jugs. Decided that I didn't need that kind of penetration for our okla whitetails.
Siamese4570

[Markopolo]

I would shoot whatever one the young man can shoot with he best accuracy.. cans and bottles don't have the kind of adrenaline that a walking breathing bear of any size has. If he shoots 50 round of each, select the one he is most comfy and accurate with. After 50 rounds, you will see a pattern.. put him on paper so you can see if is able to group well. The paper will give you a lot more info then shooting cans will... then select your boolit. Wait till you have real data...

[Tripplebeards]

I would shoot whatever one the young man can shoot with he best accuracy.. cans and bottles don't have the kind of adrenaline that a walking breathing bear of any size has. If he shoots 50 round of each, select the one he is most comfy and accurate with. After 50 rounds, you will see a pattern.. put him on paper so you can see if is able to group well. The paper will give you a lot more info then shooting cans will... then select your boolit. Wait till you have real data...

I had orange stick on .50 cent size targets he was hitting on paper as well. Both boolits are the same...devistators. My question now that I have him comfortable with shooting a stout load charge at 1575fps im wondering if my 7.5bh boolit is too soft? I have both 7.5 and 13.4 devistator boolits.They are the only two alloys casted up and my mold is back at Lyman for repair so I can't make any more before season. He groups the same with both a 30 yards which is his shot over bait. I am just wondering if the softer or harder alloy will do a better job at 1575fps.
The 7.5bh is essentially pure lead, flooring with 6 % pewter. The 13.4bh is AC COWW with 2% pewter. Both are GC and PC.

I am leaning towards the softer boolit hoping there will be some over expansion to put a big bleeder hole in and out out of the animal. I just want make sure it's not going to overexpand to the point I won't get enough penatration to the point I won't get a pass through.

[white eagle]

you will never find a pat answer to your question
every hunt every shot is different no two are the same
everyone has the alloy that always works and use most of the time
the only way is to find out for yourself by using it on game
I wish I could tell you what you want to hear
good luck

[Tripplebeards]

Thanks, my gut tells me to go to the softer 7.5bh so that's what I'll do.

[Tripplebeards]

it took me three times to catch one of my Devastators today the first two times it exited out after the fourth milk jug and then I shot through three small Gatorade bottles and it caught in a milk jug...

this was the 7.5 b h at 1575 ft per second

[Larry Gibson]

Looking good.......

[Tripplebeards]

Larry, I found another one laying on the ground a few feet from where the jugs were.





I would assume water is pretty hard on the boolits. I found lead fragments in some of the jugs. They both mushroomed nicely. The jugs were placed about 20 yards out...the same distance we will be sitting over bait. Ill have to weigh them when I get home. I'm on my way up north to bait bear and check cameras. There is a lot of action durring daylight hours and hope it contunes till season opens next week.to

[Larry Gibson]

Yes water is "hard" on bullets, especially HP'd ones like the Devastator. Animal mass does not have the density of just water nor the associated hydraulics. Thus expansion will not be as quick nor violent. Penetration will also be a bit greater.