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Thread: Casting and loading for "mild" recoil in .45ACP 1911

  1. #21
    Boolit Bub
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    4.3-4.5gr of Clay's under the 200gr 45 caliber bullet of your choice is a standard "power factor" USPSA competition loading. It is a soft shooting load that is more of a push than a whip, which keeps the front sight lower between shots. This load is shot by thousands of USPSA shooters every weekend. I have shot tens of thousands of these myself over the years.

    Power Factor in 45ACP loading is roughly 75-80% of most factory loadings. Most guns run this load without fiddling with the factory springs. The icing on the cake with this Clay's load is that it is very clean compared to factory and a lot of other hand loads.

    I shot mainly commercially bought molly coated LSWC's, but the commercially bought RN Hi Tech bullets I tried were fat. They ran OK, but unloading was often an issue because the standard 1.25 OAL put the bullets in the lands.

    I would certainly test some LSWC's in your gun. Both of my 1911's ran them fine without gun modification. That might be a solution to the .001-.002 of coating you add to whatever boolit you cast.
    Last edited by bwframe; 08-22-2017 at 01:29 AM.

  2. #22
    Boolit Buddy ROCKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsizemore View Post
    200 grain lswc H&G 68 or clone with 4gr of Be, 4.5gr of 231, or 5gr of Unique will have you @ 725fps. Real easy to shoot as long as a 1911 fits her hands.
    What he said ...

  3. #23
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    Some don't either have the time or the money to go to a fancy shooting school. Shooting basics can be learned by anyone. Some of the best information so far was in post #2 of this thread. I highly suggest that she go thru the NRA course on shooting.

    My wife tried to shoot 45 acp years ago with a Colt officers 1911 and I ended up with it. I finally let her progress at her rate and with the calibers SHE wanted to try instead of me suggesting something. She progressed from 380 to 9mm to 357 to 40 and then to 45acp. She has fired my 44mag desert Eagle and isn't afraid to try anything now. 45LC with full loads...no problem now and she isn't a big woman .

  4. #24
    Boolit Master S.B.'s Avatar
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    Be careful! If you reduce the recoil impuse you, also, risk not having enough power to work the action of the slide?
    Steve
    "The Original Point and Click Interface was a Smith & Wesson."
    Life member NRA, USPSA, ISRA
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  5. #25
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    My loves and took ownership of my Ruger .22 Semi Auto pistol with a 4 inch barrel.

    I tried her with 9mm, .38 Special, and a .380 Walther. Nothing suited her except that Ruger .22 pistol. My fingers get sore reloading mags when I take her shooting.
    Maker of Silver Boolits for Werewolf hunting

  6. #26
    Boolit Bub
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    Thank you all! I tried to give her my Ruger MKII, and she said she wanted to shoot the "real" one. LOL And yes, i did explain the .22 was absolutely real. She originally wanted to shoot my .380 PPKS, but after I shot it about 20 rounds, the web of my hand was throbbing pretty good, so I told her that. I will definitely get a mold for the .45, and go from there. I realize the only real cure for flinching is shooting and more shooting. I just need to make it a little less costly. Randy, I do agree with professional training, I'll look into that. I know I will probably end up with more than one mold, any likes or dislikes for a flat nose/hollow point, preferably in 200 grain + - ? Thank you all, Terry

  7. #27
    Boolit Bub
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    I'd agree with the suggestion for training. I'd research and go local rather than send her out of state at least initially. You both might be surprised at what a relatively small training investment can achieve.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master S.B.'s Avatar
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    Yes but, that's most .45 ACPs isn't it? Maybe I'm just insensitive? Favorite load is 5.9 of Win. 231 under a 200 gr swc.
    Steve
    Last edited by S.B.; 08-23-2017 at 07:29 AM.
    "The Original Point and Click Interface was a Smith & Wesson."
    Life member NRA, USPSA, ISRA
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  9. #29
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    QUOTE=6bg6ga;4132138]Some don't either have the time or the money to go to a fancy shooting school. Shooting basics can be learned by anyone. Some of the best information so far was in post #2 of this thread. I highly suggest that she go thru the NRA course on shooting.[/QUOTE]

    You are correct that they can be learned by anyone, and so can everything else in life.

    However we have schools that are supposed to be teaching our young people the Fundamentals of Everyday Living (IE: Reading Writing and Arithmetic) and it is painfully obvious that that doesn't always happen the way that was intended. Less so everyday.

    There are all kinds of local "Instructors" and near me I can name off about 10 that I know personally. One out of the 10 actually knows what he is doing and the rest just took the NRA test, and passed it. The "one" was trained at Front Sight and has consistent good results and makes a good living training people who are looking to get their CCW permits, and some newbies as well. He sends all the Newbies to Front Sight after he teaches them which end of the gun the bullet comes out. I recommend him highly.

    The reason why it is so important to get Intensive Professional Training at the beginning is because having the correct versions of the fundamentals embedded at the beginning circumvents having to break bad habits that were developed during poor training sessions, or at home doing what you thought they taught you.

    I spent 5 years doing this only to slowly evolve into correct form IE: Stance, Grip, Sight Picture and Trigger Control. It took a while for me to duplicate what I was being taught.

    The idea that a new person is going to totally understand all the fundamentals of Pistol Shooting taught in a 1 or 2 hour class maybe once a week is ludicrous. This takes lots of practice and that practice must be conducted correctly or you just get a sack of bad habits.

    4, 8 hour days of intensive training and coaching done on a gradient scale so the student learns each key point, and then drills it, and then builds on those skills as more fundamentals are added. It must be done on a gradient so that the student doesn't get over whelmed with misunderstanding and give up. You also are coaching another person who is also coaching you. So both of you are working towards the same goal, and an instructor comes by often to watch and make sure you are doing it correctly. (both shooting and coaching)

    The number of times you go over a given subject has a direct relationship to your eventual understanding of that subject. This applies to everything not just shooting.

    In Alaska if you want to work for someone as a Bush Pilot, the first question they are going to ask you,,, "is how much Instructor Time you have?" This is because the more times you go over a subject while teaching it, the better you understand it yourself and the better Pilot you will be. The defining test is your ability to accurately tell/show someone else how to do something and have them actually duplicate what you said. IE: talking in plain English, physically demonstrating, and having the other person be able to do what you just explained.

    Not what they "thought" you said!

    The reason why I harp on professional training so much is because it works, and was not widely available 30-40 years ago. I have seen how it has improved my shooting from what I thought was pretty good, (turned out to be pretty abysmal) to relatively competent. If I had access to a school like Front Sight or Gunsite 40 years ago I'd be a top professional shooter now.

    Another Example: My son bought a brand new C7 Z06 Corvette last year.($125K) This car has over 600 HP and is a friggin' rocket ship! He took me for a ride and literally scared the ship out of me. This car was so far above his driving abilities it was downright dangerous. However GM was kind enough to include a ticket to the Corvette Driving School in Pahrump NV.

    First they went over the functions and operations of all the features of the cars, most of which he had no clue about, and then they played with them.

    Then in the class room they taught the proper way to accelerate, brake, set up a corner and exit the corner.

    Then they went out on the track with the company supplied Corvettes, and each instructor had 4 students in cars in line behind him. Each student would come to the front for 4-6 laps and the instructor who was in front was coaching the student thru his rear view mirror, while everyone else followed behind. By the time they were done with the first day each driver had 20 or so laps at speed under his belt.

    On the second day they only drove, critiqued performance, and did repeated laps in the same way as done the day before except they were going progressively faster.

    My son was lapping the 2+ mile course at 150MPH plus at the end of the second day, and is a pleasure to drive with now.

    GM figured that it might be a good idea to teach people how to drive a High Performance Car so they didn't end up killing themselves in it, which would be bad PR. Good move.

    Maybe Gun Manufacturers should think about doing the same thing?

    No not Congress or elected officials mandating it, Totally voluntary on the part of the new owner.

    There is a school for just about everything you can think of now. And that's a good thing.

    All you have to do is use them, you'll the better if you do.

    Randy
    Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 08-22-2017 at 02:47 PM.
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  10. #30
    Boolit Bub
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    We must be blessed to have quite a selection of good local trainers here. The one's with plenty of student references and their own published training resumes. Maybe Florida is similar to Indiana in that regard?

    It certainly pays to research whether your potential trainer's sole experience is the NRA's certification or not. The NRA certification only trainers are pretty easy to spot around here, cause they don't have any clients, much less AARs from the classes they have taught.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwframe View Post
    We must be blessed to have quite a selection of good local trainers here. The one's with plenty of student references and their own published training resumes. Maybe Florida is similar to Indiana in that regard?

    It certainly pays to research whether your potential trainer's sole experience is the NRA's certification or not. The NRA certification only trainers are pretty easy to spot around here, cause they don't have any clients, much less AARs from the classes they have taught.
    Good point and you should always check the competence level of any instructor no matter what they are teaching before you sign up with them.

    Plenty of people who "think they know," out there.

    Only a few who actually do, and have the Mindset and Ability to share their knowledge in a way that actually promotes the discipline.

    Beware the "Strict Disciplinarians." They are no fun at all.

    Actus non Verba wins the day here.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  12. #32
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
    Good point and you should always check the competence level of any instructor no matter what they are teaching before you sign up with them.

    Plenty of people who "think they know," out there.

    Only a few who actually do, and have the Mindset and Ability to share their knowledge in a way that actually promotes the discipline.

    Beware the "Strict Disciplinarians." They are no fun at all.

    Actus non Verba wins the day here.

    Randy
    You are correct. There are some who just don't have the knowledge they should to be training. Consequently, there are some with a wealth of knowledge of all related subjects, that couldn't teach you to tie your shoes.

  13. #33
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    Light bullet at low velocity. In .45 ACP that can be 155 to 200 cast. Put in a "softball"recoil spring and load just enough Bullseye to maintain reliable function. IMO the 1911 is one of the easiest guns to learn to shoot well. I fired my first one at age 12 and was hooked from that point. My wife can't rack the slide on my .45 but hand it to her cocked and locked and she'll put seven rounds in a playing card at twenty feet. I just give her tips; this country gal could shoot when I met her!

  14. #34
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    Second Chance- I'm glad you mentioned the Walther PPK. All my life I wanted a PP in .32 ACP.
    I got one and boy was it accurate. And well made and pretty. Problem was it was the meanest little thing to shoot I've owned. My bony hands may be at fault or the grip frame was wrong for me but I'd rather fire 50 full house .41 mags than 50 little bitty .32s in that PP. I had a 1922 FN .32 that I loved shooting so it's not the cartridge.
    There. I've admitted it. Six foot two 200 lb man whooped by tiny pistol.
    Best, Thomas.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
    DerekP Houston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by second chance View Post
    Thank you all! I tried to give her my Ruger MKII, and she said she wanted to shoot the "real" one. LOL And yes, i did explain the .22 was absolutely real. She originally wanted to shoot my .380 PPKS, but after I shot it about 20 rounds, the web of my hand was throbbing pretty good, so I told her that. I will definitely get a mold for the .45, and go from there. I realize the only real cure for flinching is shooting and more shooting. I just need to make it a little less costly. Randy, I do agree with professional training, I'll look into that. I know I will probably end up with more than one mold, any likes or dislikes for a flat nose/hollow point, preferably in 200 grain + - ? Thank you all, Terry
    I'd be happy to mail you some hg 68 to try out prior to purchasing the mold, shoot me a PM. I'll be casting some other stuff up this weekend and can do these as well.
    My feedback page if you feel inclined to add:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...raight-Shooter

    Thanks Yall!

  16. #36
    Boolit Master


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    I'm in agreement with the 200gr SWC crowd. A fairly light load of Bullseye, Win231, Clays, etc. will cycle a standard 1911 with no modifications and will be soft shooting and accurate.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

  17. #37
    Boolit Master lablover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerekP Houston View Post
    I'd be happy to mail you some hg 68 to try out prior to purchasing the mold, shoot me a PM. I'll be casting some other stuff up this weekend and can do these as well.
    I'd also be glad to pitch some in as well..Already lubed up and sized ready to go! Just PM if ya want some

  18. #38
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    My pet load for steel plates (not Steel Challenge; it's too slow) is 3.7 grains of WST with a 200 grain SWC. That gives a velocity in my gun of 645 fps. Depending on how slick your gun is you'll need an 8-10 pound recoil spring to cycle reliably. You might even want to go with 3.8-3.9 grains of WST. At 3.7 grains the cases land about 14"-18" off to the side. Recoil is unnoticeable.
    Sometimes life taps you on the shoulder and reminds you it's a one way street. Jim Morris

  19. #39
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David2011 View Post
    My pet load for steel plates (not Steel Challenge; it's too slow) is 3.7 grains of WST with a 200 grain SWC. That gives a velocity in my gun of 645 fps. Depending on how slick your gun is you'll need an 8-10 pound recoil spring to cycle reliably. You might even want to go with 3.8-3.9 grains of WST. At 3.7 grains the cases land about 14"-18" off to the side. Recoil is unnoticeable.
    I've been using 4.1 of WST under a 200 grain H&G 68 clone(LEE) with excellent results. While not unnoticeable, the recoil is low and the accuracy is excellent.

  20. #40
    Boolit Master
    DerekP Houston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    I've been using 4.1 of WST under a 200 grain H&G 68 clone(LEE) with excellent results. While not unnoticeable, the recoil is low and the accuracy is excellent.
    I must've stolen my load data from you that's the same I recommend for powder puff 45 acp. To me that load was less snappy than the factory 40 S&W.
    My feedback page if you feel inclined to add:
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...raight-Shooter

    Thanks Yall!

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check