Casting and loading for "mild" recoil in .45ACP 1911

[second chance]

Hi everyone. I'm not new to reloading, but haven't done any reloading in a few years. The reason for the post is that my daughter (19) has shown an interest in my .45's. Shes not a big girl, but not "tiny" either. I just thought that maybe loading target loads might make it easier for her to overcome the 'jitters" and flinching that comes with the max load factory ball ammo.
Also I'd like to cast bullets, to off set the cost, of all that practice shooting that will be necessary. I have most of the needed casting equipment, but I don't have any .45ACP molds yet.
I'm leaning towards using the Hi Tech coatings, so I would like a bullet that works well with that. I know some are being made without lube channels for that purpose, but haven't seen any feedback from those. Any, and all help, would be appreciated. Thank you, Terry

[OS OK]

The best way I know of to fight flenching is to train with a revolver. Load the cylinder and withhold a couple rounds spaced apart by live rounds.
Let her shoot it and when she triggers over an empty cylinder she will see exactly what she is doing. She's fighting the recoil.
I can't imagine a better way to fight this reaction than to practice proper sight alignment and trigger control and focus on that.
After training like this it won't matter whether she shoots a revolver or an auto she will break this anticipation reaction. If and when it reoccurs, go back to the revolver and train more.
If you try to load soft loads in the auto you will eventually get down to where it doesn't cycle properly and then you'll have to start swapping out the springs...I'd rather get around all that.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

NOE probably offers some of the best molds that are in stock. If your 1911s are stock it will be simplest to stick with a round nose profile in the 200-230gr range.

Hi-Tech (or however it is spelled) does work, but the devil is in the details. I had inconsistent results with it and went back to traditional lubes. Lots of threads discussing Hi-Tech and the various methods. I'm sure it works, just haven't taken the time to get past the learning curve. If you want a toaster oven and a barely used container of Hi Tech powder PM and maybe we can work out a deal.

Clays or Bullseye are great powders for light loads that will still cycle the slide.


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[CraigOK]

I load 230 rn over clays @ 3.6 grains and its my wifes fav fun to shoot. Found that in a lot of places online and dropped down a bit and lpaded some up. It's pretty accurate too.

[DerekP Houston]

I download my rounds for my wife, I prefer the stout recoil for 4.7gr WST but 4.1gr still cycles the action enough for her. YMMV.

[second chance]

Good point OS, but i'm stuck with auto loaders at present. Thank you all for the replies. I've got 4 pounds of unique, and one pound each of 231 and Bullseye.

[Wayne Smith]

I use a 200gr boolit at about 800fps. Not a huge amount of recoil, not scary to shoot, and quite adequate for use.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The best way to get her shooting well is to send her to a professionally ran Shooting School.
I usually recommend Front Sight and they are supposed to be opening an east coast venue soon. www.frontsight.com

In a 4 day Defensive Pistol Class she will be taught everything she needs to know as to how to run and shoot any gun she shows up with. She will shoot @800 rounds over the 4 days and She will probably shoot a lot better than you do when she returns. Maybe you should go with her?

I personally would send her with a 9MM Glock for her first go round (rent one at the school) as that is the easiest and least complicated pistol to learn how to shoot and get the fundamentals in with.

After that she could work up to the 1911, and there is no woman with average sized hands that can't be taught to shoot a 1911 effectively with whatever ammo. She would just have to shoot a lot over a short period of time. Another 4 Day Defensive Pistol Class would take care of that.

As far as a mould, Lyman 452374 has been the goto .45 ACP mould for a real long time. That boolit with 5 grains of Bullseye will be easy to shoot and still make holes in the target.

I have been powder coating mine for some time now and they run flawlessly in my Glock 21 SF. almost no cleaning required for the barrel after shooting these.

That's my recommendation for getting the best training for her and keeping her interested in shooting. People that don't learn how to shoot correctly tend to not shoot as much and eventually loose interest. You've got to keep her shooting at least once a month or more if you can.

Randy

[fredj338]

You didn't say what 45, but if you want to run stock springs, then a 230gr bullet running about 700fps will run most guns & be soft shooting with faster powders. The softest shooting powder I have tried in 45acp is WST by quite a bit. I shoot a lot of 45acp, about 6K rounds a year in competition. IDPA requires a min power factor of 165, so a 200gr @ 825fps or 230gr @ 720fps. I feel the 230gr is a tiny bit softer shooting. These run in my stock spring 1911s.

[second chance]

I was thinking 9MM myself. But I don't own one of those, "yet". I have four 1911's in .45cal and a Glock 27 in .40 cal. I do have a friend that wants to sell a "like new" .40 cal full size Glock for reasonable, any thoughts on converting that to 9MM? How are Glocks with cast bullets? I still need all recommendations for the .45ACP though, because I'm setting up to cast for that, regardless of secondary calibers.

[second chance]

WR that's good advice. She has been shooting air pistols and rifles for years. and taking away the recoil, shes a very good shot now. Action shooting is a whole nuther animal. I'm thinking that should be addressed after she's 21 and can actually own a handgun. I know you can never start too young, but I think when she's ready for that level of training, she should be running her own gun

[Echo]

The best way I know of to fight flenching is to train with a revolver. Load the cylinder and withhold a couple rounds spaced apart by live rounds.
Let her shoot it and when she triggers over an empty cylinder she will see exactly what she is doing. She's fighting the recoil.
I can't imagine a better way to fight this reaction than to practice proper sight alignment and trigger control and focus on that.
After training like this it won't matter whether she shoots a revolver or an auto she will break this anticipation reaction. If and when it reoccurs, go back to the revolver and train more.
If you try to load soft loads in the auto you will eventually get down to where it doesn't cycle properly and then you'll have to start swapping out the springs...I'd rather get around all that.

It's called Ball & Dummy practice, and it is the best practice a shooter can do, even experienced shooters. And it can be done w/auto's - use two magazines, and do the loading yourself, so she doesn't know if there is a live round or not. Or she can do it by herself, if she can juggle the mags behind her back and seat the selected mag with her eyes closed.
As for boolits, there are many 45 swc molds out there. Standard target load of 3.5 grs BE under a 200-gr swc might work, or you might have to jack it up a tenth or two, for functioning. Check eBay for a used Lyman 452460 4-banger - complete with handles will still be less than $100, and will turn out good boolits.

[Jal5]

Don't rule out a Lee 230 RN tumble lube which will produce a good boolit too at minimal expense. Its very accurate and mild over BE

[acoop101]

If she is flinching get some snap caps and mix in some dummy rounds, you load the mags for her so she doesn't know where the dummies are

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[W.R.Buchanan]

I was thinking 9MM myself. But I don't own one of those, "yet". I have four 1911's in .45cal and a Glock 27 in .40 cal. I do have a friend that wants to sell a "like new" .40 cal full size Glock for reasonable, any thoughts on converting that to 9MM? How are Glocks with cast bullets? I still need all recommendations for the .45ACP though, because I'm setting up to cast for that, regardless of secondary calibers.

By changing the barrel on a G22 to a G17 barrel you can shoot 9MM. You might also have to use a 9MM magazine. It doesn't work the other way around. IE: you can't make a G17 into a G22,,, the bolt face isn't big enough to swallow the .40S&W rim.

This is why I bought a G23 for my bug out gun, so I can have a G19 barrel and use 9MM in a pinch.

The thing about the school was the main point. They can make her a shooter in less than a week. If she starts with a rented Glock she can always transition to a 1911 or whatever when she is ready to be an owner. But waiting just looses however many years until she is 21, the idea is to get her shooting as fast as possible, and get her fundamentals in ASAP. That's what you build on, and the simpler the gun the faster it takes place.

This stuff all takes time to learn as you are learning Muscle Memory and Fine Motor Skills, the sooner you start the better,,, as everything else is just a waste of precious time.

Randy

[fredj338]

By changing the barrel on a G22 to a G17 barrel you can shoot 9MM. You might also have to use a 9MM magazine. It doesn't work the other way around. IE: you can't make a G17 into a G22,,, the bolt face isn't big enough to swallow the .40S&W rim.

This is why I bought a G23 for my bug out gun, so I can have a G19 barrel and use 9MM in a pinch.

Randy

Randy have you actually used stock Glock 9mm bbls in your 40s? My understanding is the hood dims are diff so conversion bbls are the proper way to go. I have done this with several Glock 40/357sigs with great success & 9mm mags of course.

[jsizemore]

200 grain lswc H&G 68 or clone with 4gr of Be, 4.5gr of 231, or 5gr of Unique will have you @ 725fps. Real easy to shoot as long as a 1911 fits her hands.

[jcren]

+1 for the 200 swc. I have the Lee h&g 68 style, standard lube groove and powder coat it. 4 grains of red dot is cheap light practice, easily managed in a full size with standard springs. Also, sticking with such a common bullet profile ensures lots of support. There is literally books of info on loading this bullet.

[lablover]

I load a 200 gr Noe SWC H&G68 clone with 4.0 gr of Bullseye and let the Wife shoot..She looks at me and says, thats it..I expected more. That was last year and she can't put the thing down now. She's about 5 ft tall and a buck 30 soaking wet... I can't load and cast these things fast enough for her. You may have to drop a little spring weight....Maybe not

[reddog81]

Any .45 ACP mold and using a starting charge of powder is going to be relatively soft shooting.

The H&G 68 is extremely popular and as good a choice as any. A minimum charge of bullseye will produce results so light you'll wonder if your shooting 32 ACP rounds.