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Thread: Paperpatch sticking to bullet.

  1. #1
    Boolit Man
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    Paperpatch sticking to bullet.

    I did some ammo testing today with hard and soft cast pp bullets in my martini. I found paper still stuck to the bullet in the sand at 100m. Now I was experimenting with normal computer paper today. I never saw this with tracing paper. I just wanted to up the diameter so I could friction fit in the fire sized case. Now I am going with 3 wraps of tracing paper to see how that works tonight.
    Has anyone ran into a situation where the paper stays on that long? If so what was the problem and how was it rectified.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Try dry patching - and above all, a bigger bullet. Best a .458 - .460 bullet patched up to .470. The thinner the paper, the better the results usually. Ordinary paper is just too thick. I also had an issue with sticking patches when wet patching, so now I dry patch. Easier actually, when you get the hang of it. And just a friction fit usually isn't enough for a Martini, unless you can seat the bullet out into the rifling (no mean feat with that long throat on a military martini). A bit of neck tension usually works much better accuracy-wise.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master


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    i load exclusively with black powder, and i find that the tried and true double wrap of 9# onion paper over a 1:20 or 1:16 slick that's cast/sized (mine are .443 for a .45-70) so that the resulting DRY patched PPB is a hair under bore diameter works best. every shot taken results in a shower of confetti.

  4. #4
    Boolit Man
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    Thanks for the feedback

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    If you want thicker paper, check the "Artsy-Craftsy" sections of the department stores, or the "premium" shelves of the paper stores, for tablets of "sketching" or "drawing" paper or reams of "vellum." Bring your micrometer with you, and shun all but the "crackly" thick stuff. The kind they'd use on a radio drama to suggest a fire in progress.

    The soft stuff like computer paper turns to papier mache, especially when patched wet, and sticks to everything. I've even occasionally found the harder papers stuck to the ends of wet-patched boolits dug from the berm at 400 yds. I've had them peel off the boolits going through targets at 200 M, lying on the ground when I went out to check groups. The groups were not good. I no longer wet-patch.

    If the BHN of your lead alloy is 8-11 or so, the patched boolit shouldn't need to be a "press fit" in your bore. They shouldn't rattle down the barrel, but I've had combinations that can be pushed through with less effort than a cleaning patch, the rifling just marking the outer wrap of the paper, that shoot better than combos with the same boolit with thicker paper and a tighter fit. Size the width of your patches so they go up to the ogive but only cover the edge of bullet bases 1/32" or so when wrapped.

    Extra wraps of paper will only complicate things. You want the patch off the boolit as soon as it emerges from the muzzle. While I was getting started, I wrapped them "backwards," i.e., with the leading edge flopping loose at the front rather than tucked away at the rear, and held by the case mouth. Kind of a nuisance to chamber, but certain to catch the air outside and strip off immediately. When loading, I'd moisten the edge, press it down, and rotate the cartridge while seating. Now that I'm more sure of things, I wrap them the other way.
    Last edited by Bent Ramrod; 08-21-2017 at 11:48 AM.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    In 45 cal I use a 443 dia slick sided bullet and 2 wraps of rolled drafting paper or onion paper at .0018 thickness for a bullet dia of .450. Use enough Black powder to fill the case to the base of the bullet with the wad stack and .090 grease cookie. The bullet sits .150-.180 in the case is all. This shoots very well and the paper patch confetti is recovered with in 5 feet of the muzzle.
    Dry wrap or just lightly dampen the patch for a short time on sponge setting in a pan of water for a couple minute. The old egg white mixture 1 egg white to a quart of water or some others ( I used to use lee water soluable sizing lube mixed 4 parts water to 1 part lube). Wash your bullets down with acetone or alchlol to remove any oils or other things. A good tight wrap will hold fine and a good fold over leaving a small amount of base showing in the center ( .090-.100 dia ) Leaving a tail may cause patches to stick as this is pushed into the base on firing.Computer and typing papers may have a clay or other coatings for their intended use that makes them stick also. Use a larger dia bullet if bigger is wanted and stick with the thinner papers drafting paper tracing paper onion paper and such. The heavier papers don't roll or form as well the coatings are an issue and they don't cut as well. The recovered patches should be outer layer is confetti and the under layer base intact showing rifiling impressions.

  7. #7
    Boolit Man
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    I have noticed that the computer paper does get 'mushy' when wet. That's probably why it sticks. The tracing paper I have used seems to leave the bullet immediately. I will try some quality onion paper as suggested. Thanks

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    Look for paper in the 7-9lb range. I have forund several tablets of tracing paper at Wallmarts ( Paco brand I think) that worked good. Also business max had a 25% and 100% cotton tracing paper that was very good. These were in a "Pad to the top edge needs to be discarded due to the glue bond there. Seth Cole sketch paper is very good to work with 55w is 8lband comes in a 12"X 50 yd roll. This is .0018 thick.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master


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    my startup PPB load advice whence loading with real black gunpowder - dry wrap only, use a double rhomboid wrap of papermill 9# onion paper, make sure the completed PPB is at or just under bore diameter when completed (the PPB will easily fit into the chamber throat and bore - there will be no such thing as a PPB cartridge OAL). whether or not to use a lube cookie is up to you, i don't and that ensures a typical .45-70 case will hold in excess of 80 grains of swiss 1-1/2 and turns it into a "virtual .45-90". as always, ymmv.

  10. #10
    Boolit Man
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    Does one grease the outside of the patch? I have been, just the part that is recessed in the case neck

  11. #11
    Boolit Man
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    So I think my bullet maybe too big. I have a mark 3 martini and my slick is .460". What are other people using in there mark 3's?

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    I very lightly wipe the sides of the patch with JoJoba oil before hand seating it. I do 4-5 and then remove the excess with a cleaning patch. a drop on finger and thumb does about 5-6 bullets. Spin bullet in the same direction as the wrap is. I don't use grease or thick lubes for this. I did use the Lee water soluable sizing lube for awhile This was mixed 1 part lube to 4 parts water. It left a lightly lubed patch when dried. I prefer the JoJOba oil now over it. A very good book on the art of Paper Patching is Randolph S. Wrights Book Loading and shooting the paper patched bullet A Begineers guide. Very well written and a lot of good information presented in an informative easy to understand forum.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master


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    +1 to country gents recommendation of randy wright's book - it's the best around for PPB newbies.

    personally, i have no need for lubing or wetting patches. dry works best for all the right reasons - blow off at the muzzle. hunting *may* be a reason for wiping the outside of the already created PPB cartridge patch paper with a cake of beeswax for some modicum of "waterproofing".

    how the cartridge is assembled is another matter, as there are more than a few good methods, and that appears to depend on the rifle's chamber. my current roller was meant for greasers, so the chamber/throat is on the larger size. this means that my completed PPB's fall into the fire formed case mouth - and will fall out as well. so, the completed cartridge gets very Very slightly neck sized, just enuf to trap the PPB, and although it won't fall out of the case, it can swivel and be pulled out with a slight bit of effort.

    lotsa variables whence going the PPB Way. ain't dis stuff fun, or what?


  14. #14
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    I would suspect if your bullet is already 460 before patching and using that heavy printer paper is the major cause of paper sticking to your bullet.
    Wet patching with an 8 lb paper and wiping down the exposed portion of the patch after loading has proven to be a good thing in my rifles.
    GUSA #6
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  15. #15
    Boolit Man
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    I sized my slick down to 457 after work and hit the range. I noticed some improvement. I did a 5 shot group and had 2 touching and another 2 touching 4" from the first 2 and one in between. I think my 10lb trigger could be an issue. It's trying to do something at least now. That was with tracing paper. Going to town for a horse show this weekend gonna find some onion skin paper as was suggested.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

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    I use a mecham tool bushing die for the 45-70-45-90 and 40-65. I have bushing a few thousandths either side of what I want for both PP and geasers. I also load waiting to size until bushing is seated and then just enough to set bullet tension, but most dies don't undersize enough for bore riders. A bushing type die can be a big pluss here as it saves expanding back up. All of my chambers are grease groove style with no real throat the lead is right off the case mouth. This works well for me other than the large necks on fired cases. You may want to consider annealing a little more often to remove the hardening from the extra sizing of the cases. I also use a patch board to wrap the patch for consistency. Its just easier for me.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mgvande View Post
    I sized my slick down to 457 after work and hit the range. I noticed some improvement. I did a 5 shot group and had 2 touching and another 2 touching 4" from the first 2 and one in between. I think my 10lb trigger could be an issue. It's trying to do something at least now. That was with tracing paper. Going to town for a horse show this weekend gonna find some onion skin paper as was suggested.
    Seth Cole 55w is a very good paper. If you have a Staples office supply store nearby, they have a rolled 8lb tracing paper in their drafting section that is quite similar to the Seth Cole.
    And yes a 10 lb trigger pull will not do anything to help with small groups.
    GUSA #6
    People will forget what you said...
    People will forget what you did...
    But People will NEVER forget how you made them feel

    Want to join in adult conversation about shooting the old ways without the hysterics associated with other places?http://historicshooting.com/mybb/index.php

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mgvande View Post
    So I think my bullet maybe too big. I have a mark 3 martini and my slick is .460". What are other people using in there mark 3's?
    No it isn't - Military Martini's do shoot well with the bigger bullets patched up to groove diameter - and is a totally different best than the PP bullet loaded for the match rifle due to that very long, oversize and shallow throat. Most of the advice given here is for 'normal' chambers and match rifle - not for a period military Martini. And no, you don't have to lube the paper, just use a thick grease cookie.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mgvande View Post
    So I think my bullet maybe too big. I have a mark 3 martini and my slick is .460". What are other people using in there mark 3's?
    No it isn't - Military Martini's do shoot well with the bigger bullets patched up to groove diameter - and is a totally different best than the PP bullet loaded for the match rifle due to that very long, oversize and shallow throat. Most of the advice given here is for 'normal' chambers and match rifle - not for a period military Martini. And no, you don't have to lube the paper, just use a thick grease cookie.

  20. #20
    Boolit Man
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    My grease cookie is about 1/8" thick. I have seen people are using a heck of allot more like 1/4" to 3/8". Perhaps I should double what I'm doing.

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