Feels like I just learned to cast all over again

[David2011]

I've been casting for a while, starting in 1982. I've probably used 3000 pounds of lead so far. My boolits have with a few minor exceptions consistent and of good quality and very consistent weight for the application, a little plinking, a little hunting and a lot of action pistol shooting. Apologies for the long post. I have a talent for making a short story long.

Last weekend I got tired of messing with a mold that didn't want to drop boolits so I (UGH!!!) sprayed aerosol bullet mold release in it. The boolits came out with a texture that offended my eyes but were perfectly serviceable for Cowboy Action where the targets are large and close. This weekend, on Saturday, I decided to pursue the issue further. I cleaned the mold, a Lee 358-158-RF with a solvent, scrubbed it with Dawn and hot water and gave it a final cleaning with lacquer thinner and Q-Tips. After that I went over the edges of the cavities that were reluctant to drop with an X-Acto knife looking for burrs and other rough spots. A few suspect spots were found and smoothed.

I fired up the furnace and prepared to make another batch of boolits. I know all of the basics except how to consistently get shiny boolits. They always started out shiny but I quickly got the mold too hot and they frosted. I could reliably pour and drop about every 25 seconds as long as I didn't mind frosted boolits. This cycle time was about the same regardless of the size or material of the mold. I was running the furnace at around 700 degrees by a thermometer.

So far this is pretty routine. What happened next made everything I knew about casting come together. My boolits were good and satisfied the need but were never as pretty and shiny as other peoples' boolits. I know frosted boolits are fine and understand what causes the frost. I was plugging along making my usual lightly frosted boolits and started slowing the pace to try to get a little more shine to them. I really slowed the pace but there was still that bit of frost. I started reducing the temperature of the furnace. Over the next 20 minutes or so the boolits started getting shiny. As the temperature dropped further I was able to increase the pace and the boolits were still shiny. I finally settled in at about 625 degrees and let the sprue cool for 15 seconds before opening. Every boolit had that nice shiny look. I finally got the look I wanted and found that by going slower the boolits seemed to shrink a little as they dropped much easier.

I was so thrilled with the way everything came together that I mixed another alloy and repeated the results with different molds and alloys. On Sunday I went to the shop, mixed up another favorite alloy and enjoyed the same results with two more molds. I even cast with two very different molds alternating between them and had great results. One was a 4 cavity 170 grain .401 Lyman TC and the other was a two cavity 125 grain 9mm TC. I had no rejects with the .401 mold and only 5 or 6 from the 9mm. The 9mm mold is a little harder to pour for than larger molds. It fills so fast even with the pour adjustment throttled down! Most of my casting is from 158 to 250 grains.

For Pete's sake, I had been putting up with frosted boolits for all those years just because the melt was a little too hot. I would have had to slow my pace to probably one pour per minute to get the same results at a 700 degree melt temp.

In the past I got shiny boolits from time to time but never connected all of the dots. I knew the frost was from the mold getting too hot but going a little slower didn't make any difference. It just didn't occur to me that I was running the melt that much too hot.

This may sound like a total noob oversight but I've been making the same mistake hoping for different results for a long time. (Insanity?) Time after time we have all including myself told new casters to control the mold temp with the pace and not the pot temperature but that only works if the pot temperature is within the range where it needs to be for the mold, alloy and pace. While my numbers may not be valid for the next caster the concept probably will be so I wanted to share my enlightening.

David

[GhostHawk]

I have a couple of molds that tend to get a touch too warm and start frosting.

What I found was that a damp towel laid in a handy spot and 5 seconds of contact every 4th or 5th pour let me maintain momentum and still keep bullets shiny.

There are MANY variables, we all learn at our own rate. Until we are ready to grasp an idea anyone talking about it tends to go right over our heads.

So don't beat yourself up. Just be thankful you learned to adapt.
That is what it is all about.

[Bzcraig]

Good on ya David! Question, did you also check boolit consistency again? Size and weight...... I also learned to turn down my pot temperature this past winter (the casting season). A PID helps a lot as well.

[Digital Dan]

Matters not to me what others load up with, but it is stunningly simple to avoid frosted bullets. It is why the thermometer was invented.

Different alloys shrink at different ratios as they cool and it plays on the mould release issue. Moulds are crafted with a specific alloy in mind, so go off the reservation if you wish, but don't be surprised if it gets a little odd down the road.

[kbstenberg]

David
The question I am interested in. Has already been asked but not answered. How have the bullet weights and measurements changed with your casting changes?

[Echo]

Purdy Boolits!

[Thumbcocker]

I usually run two molds .

[David2011]

I weighed some boolits and found the weight to be very consistent. Actual weight of the 358-158-RC was less significant because I cast it in multiple alloys for different shooting disciplines. I also cast some .40 170 grain TCs in my Lyman mold that weighed 178 grains, same as they always have. That is with 20 pounds of coww to 1/2 pound Linotype. I'll do some more checking and measuring next weekend.

[David2011]

David
The question I am interested in. Has already been asked but not answered. How have the bullet weights and measurements changed with your casting changes?

Sorry; I placed the first post and took off for work. I work about 100 miles from home so I stay in my travel trailer during the week and have limited Internet access at the trailer. I'll follow up.

[lwknight]

I mostly use a 2/6/92 or similar alloy and run the pot at about 630F
I think the only thing running the pot hotter does for you is to slow your cadence.
Some people have a small fan to hold the mold under for a few seconds to speed up the casting. The automated machines use a fan too.

[dbosman]

Strong word!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I thought I was casting at a good temp, for my molds. Now I have new experiments to run.
I do thank you David.

DigitalDan, I have mixed feelings about your beautiful picture. On one hand I have more to aspire to. On the other hand I'm now ashamed of my only slightly shiny bullets.

[murf205]

Strong word!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I thought I was casting at a good temp, for my molds. Now I have new experiments to run.
I do thank you David.

DigitalDan, I have mixed feelings about your beautiful picture. On one hand I have more to aspire to. On the other hand I'm now ashamed of my only slightly shiny bullets.

Powder coat those boolits, brother, and only YOU will know!

[lablover]

Holyy smokes..I gotta try this. I'm at my wits end the last 3 days..And yes, I raised the temp of the mix to try to get my bases to look better..

I so want to fire up the furnace but I'm exhausted!

[David2011]

Strong word!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I thought I was casting at a good temp, for my molds. Now I have new experiments to run.
I do thank you David.

DigitalDan, I have mixed feelings about your beautiful picture. On one hand I have more to aspire to. On the other hand I'm now ashamed of my only slightly shiny bullets.

Matters not to me what others load up with, but it is stunningly simple to avoid frosted bullets. It is why the thermometer was invented.

Different alloys shrink at different ratios as they cool and it plays on the mould release issue. Moulds are crafted with a specific alloy in mind, so go off the reservation if you wish, but don't be surprised if it gets a little odd down the road.

Dan, your boolits are beautiful. If it were truly that stunningly simple I would have discovered the secret years ago. Even when one knows all of the individual elements it doesn't guarantee they will all come together. Take music. I know all of the notes, every last one of 'em, as well as I know my own thoughts. Putting them together like Ludwig did, not so simple. I like Mozart and have played much of his music on French Horn. Playing Concerto for Horn k. 477 is easy compared to writing it.

I've been using a thermometer for 10-12 years. Just "THOUGHT" I was in the right temp range. I haven't changed my well established alloys; just dropped the furnace temp and slowed the pace a bit.

I mostly use a 2/6/92 or similar alloy and run the pot at about 630F
I think the only thing running the pot hotter does for you is to slow your cadence.
Some people have a small fan to hold the mold under for a few seconds to speed up the casting. The automated machines use a fan too.

Agreed, I have gotten nice boolits at the hotter temp but the pace was that of a slow snail. I have never used a fan but have used the wet towel speed casting method when volume was more important than appearance. I was shooting 2500-3000/month at that time.

Powder coat those boolits, brother, and only YOU will know!

I'm so tired of cleaning the lube off of loaded ammo that PC is my next move. Just trying to decide whether to start with HF red or something good from Smoke.

Here's a better batch from last weekend:

[Bzcraig]

I powder coat exclusively now. With the recent threads about shaking and dumping on wire screen the tediousness is taken out of it.

[Digital Dan]

DigitalDan, I have mixed feelings about your beautiful picture. On one hand I have more to aspire to. On the other hand I'm now ashamed of my only slightly shiny bullets.

Don't be. Look closely, center row, 3D from the front. I make a point of screwing up every couple of years so my friends don't feel insecure.

Dan

PS: every alloy has a temp niche, some are published, others not too hard to find. It starts with pure lead at 800* and gets lower as you complicate the alloy.

[murf205]

Dan, your boolits are beautiful. If it were truly that stunningly simple I would have discovered the secret years ago. Even when one knows all of the individual elements it doesn't guarantee they will all come together. Take music. I know all of the notes, every last one of 'em, as well as I know my own thoughts. Putting them together like Ludwig did, not so simple. I like Mozart and have played much of his music on French Horn. Playing Concerto for Horn k. 477 is easy compared to writing it.

I've been using a thermometer for 10-12 years. Just "THOUGHT" I was in the right temp range. I haven't changed my well established alloys; just dropped the furnace temp and slowed the pace a bit.




Agreed, I have gotten nice boolits at the hotter temp but the pace was that of a slow snail. I have never used a fan but have used the wet towel speed casting method when volume was more important than appearance. I was shooting 2500-3000/month at that time.



I'm so tired of cleaning the lube off of loaded ammo that PC is my next move. Just trying to decide whether to start with HF red or something good from Smoke.

Here's a better batch from last weekend:

Well David, I tried both and Smokes powder is the best by far. I bought some airsoft bb's at Wally World and got a butter tub with the triangle and #5 inside the triangle and followed Smoke's advice as to how much to use. Use non stick aluminum foil in a flat bottom pan and bake those suckers @400 degrees for 20 min and I got great results 1st time. I still squeeze and grease sometimes, but it's because I am addicted to that smoke and smell!