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Thread: Usefullness for hunting

  1. #21
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    Thumbcocker's experience mirrors my own. However, I DO distinguish between high heart and low heart shots. The high heart shots, where the aorta is basically taken out, seem to kill very quickly, and often dead in the tracks. The lower heart shots seem to let the deer go a ways before piling up and kicking its last very violently. But in the woods, all sorts of things happen. Generally, I think, a high velocity round with a bullet that opens quickly for the size of deer engaged, seems to put them down instantly a very large percentage of the time, when the bullet is very well placed (just behind the heart). I'm not sure why. That's just been what I've observed in all the deer I've shot and seen shot. Sometimes, there's a real gap between our observations and development of really good explanations for what we see. (shrug) Well, at least it provides us something to argue about around the campfire!

  2. #22
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    Several thoughts come to mind here.
    If you have ever known any poachers, you will know for a fact, that a 22 rimfire will drop a deer in it's tracks consistently. Those perfect site pictures eludes us in the daylight hours, so you do not see too many folks hunting deer with a 22 hornet.
    I never bought into the magnum game myself, but when I first came to Alaska I met a guy that had moved out, them came back. He had sold his moose rifle when he left and was in the market for another 375 H&H. I ask him why he thought he needed such a for thin skinned moose. I will never forget his answer. He said I want the most bang for the buck that I can get, if I shoot a moose and it travels a hundred yards out into a swamp, it just added a hard days work to my hunt. lol
    He asked what I preferred. I mentioned 54 caliber, he laughed and asked why I thought I needed such a killer. lol

    Another thought comes to mind, back when all oldtimers used slow lead projectals, there was probably a reason the 32 and 36 calibers were called squirrel rifles. hmmm

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minuteshaver View Post
    Im curious here on a few things, and want to get some thoughts on it from those here.

    For handgun hunting, the traditional standard has been that as close to .4x in diameter and at least 200 grains and at least 1,000 fps.

    People have hunted well with 200 grain bullets going as slow as 800 fps. They just didn't take shots at as long of range if they had pushed the 200 grain bullet to 1,000 fps.


    The Harris target loads for military rifles can push 200 grain + bullets to roughly 1300-1500 fps, which is well within the idealized weight/range.

    SO why is the "target" load less effective at hunting with then "uncle buck" cannons 44-40 pushing a 200 grainer swc at 1,000?
    I guess I have no idea what you are saying guess I didn't know there was a standard for hunting be it handgun rifle or bow
    seems to me if you hit where you aim that is the standard you should hunt by
    Hit em'hard
    hit em'often

  4. #24
    Boolit Master Oklahoma Rebel's Avatar
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    I think by 49/49/2 he means 49%coww 49%pure lead and 2%tin
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oklahoma Rebel View Post
    I think by 49/49/2 he means 49%coww 49%pure lead and 2%tin
    that's correct the 2% is a Hi Speed Babbitt .. to get a little extra copper and the tin
    I carry a Nuke50 because cleaning up the mess is Silly !!

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  6. #26
    Boolit Master Oklahoma Rebel's Avatar
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    copper is the next big thing I think, it does take some getting used to and you cant use too much... but the benefits are there
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by white eagle View Post
    I guess I have no idea what you are saying guess I didn't know there was a standard for hunting be it handgun rifle or bow
    seems to me if you hit where you aim that is the standard you should hunt by

    on the firingline forum, and even the older thehighroad forum the method and rule was that unless your gun could push a .4x diameter bullet weighing at least 200 grains to at least 1,000 fps that you were not to talk about it unless it was a 45 colt.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oklahoma Rebel View Post
    copper is the next big thing I think, it does take some getting used to and you cant use too much... but the benefits are there
    the benefits are limited with solid copper. Ive learned that the impact velocity is just as critical as with perhaps say a 45 grain jsp in a .223 varmint rig. To slow, and it blows through like FMJ, to fast and well it opens up and doesn't do much.

  9. #29
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    Believe he is referring to .1 % or so copper in our hunting alloy. I am using some reclaim shot and pewter diluted with plain lead. There is supposed to be some trace copper in my alloy and it does seem more "tough" than the same using tin and Wheelwright to get near the same basic alloy. Who knows, but the deer can't complain with either. I don't use any of the modern bullets, all copper or gummy tipped , so can't comment there.
    As far as practice, I hunted 2 years and took a Deer each year with a No 1 and 3 243 cartridges. I varmint hunted with the rifle off season so was constantly shooting it. Was not done as a trick, just didn't have any more deer bullets and wasn't going to hunt deer with my crow load. On the other hand, if the rifle only comes out for deer season, and the hunter dosent shoot anything else off-season, there should be some practice shooting! And off a bench dosent count unless the hunter has a bench in the woods. one man's opinion, for what it's worth
    “You don’t practice until you get it right. You practice until you can’t get it wrong.” Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos

  10. #30
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    yes sir I just like lead hollow points and the additional copper seems to make these hold together better , not shear or shed pieces but give a real nice mushroom
    many of my recovered bullets show from 75% to near 100 % dia increase..
    many a dead deer in the last 4 years and none have gotten away so to me that's all I need
    I carry a Nuke50 because cleaning up the mess is Silly !!

    http://www.bing.com/search?q=nuke50&...7ADE&FORM=QBLH

    Selling Hi Quality Powdercoating Powder and Sure-Kill deer and cover scents

    PULSAR night vision and thermal dealer !!!
    PM me for a good deal

    I am not crazy my mom had me tested

    Theres a fine line between genius and crazy .. I'm that line
    and depending on the day I might just step over that line !!!

  11. #31
    Boolit Master Oklahoma Rebel's Avatar
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    yeah, I've never shot a solid copper bbullet but if I was hunting elephants, I might use them, everything else, cape buff, etc. i'll stick with lead. oh and I use about .25-.30%copper, 3%-3.5%sb, and 3-3.5%sn. I have 2 batches I want to blend, then its off to bne, and i'll let you guys know how close..(or far) my percentage estimate is. at least it is in the right area.
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by starmac View Post
    Several thoughts come to mind here.
    If you have ever known any poachers, you will know for a fact, that a 22 rimfire will drop a deer in it's tracks consistently. ....
    The first buck I ever killed - when I skinned it I found a small hole in the neck skin (I shot it in the chest) and .22LR projectile on the off side of the neck. The poacher missed the head shot.

    This was down in SE Oklahoma, an area known at the time for subsistence families, and folks doing whatever was necessary to put food on the table.

    Only complaint I had was a doe will feed you as well, or better, than a buck. If you're going to poach for food, take a doe, not antlers.
    "Varium et mutabile semper femina." - Virgil
    Man, ain't it the truth....

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smoke4320 View Post
    yes sir I just like lead hollow points and the additional copper seems to make these hold together better , not shear or shed pieces but give a real nice mushroom
    many of my recovered bullets show from 75% to near 100 % dia increase..
    many a dead deer in the last 4 years and none have gotten away so to me that's all I need
    Smoke,

    How fast are you pushing the HP's with that particular alloy?
    Just curious, as I have a bunch of those "Marine Engine Babbitt" ingots I got from flea-bay.

  14. #34
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    In 300 blackout 2 loads one at 1045-1050 subsonic and 1 at 1400 fps
    In 45-70 1575
    In my blackpowder 50 cal a NOE 460-350 PC'ED IN A KNIGHT sabot
    458 socom 1600 fps
    None have gas checks

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    Last edited by Smoke4320; 09-24-2017 at 01:24 PM.
    I carry a Nuke50 because cleaning up the mess is Silly !!

    http://www.bing.com/search?q=nuke50&...7ADE&FORM=QBLH

    Selling Hi Quality Powdercoating Powder and Sure-Kill deer and cover scents

    PULSAR night vision and thermal dealer !!!
    PM me for a good deal

    I am not crazy my mom had me tested

    Theres a fine line between genius and crazy .. I'm that line
    and depending on the day I might just step over that line !!!

  15. #35
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    Shot Placement , Shot Placement , Shot Placement !! I have killed deer with rifles from 22-250 through 45-70 and revolvers from the .38 Special up to .45 colt with many different loads and all have killed deer just fine with one shot . All were well placed shots . I don't need the meat enough to shoot farther than I am 100% comfortable with and I do not shoot at moving game . It is very illegal to do but several kids around here have killed deer (whitetail) with one shot from a .17 rim fire by taking neck shots . That is foolish but it proves to some extent that the most important factor in getting a clean one shot kill is , has been and always will be correct shot placement . I like a high heart or shot high in the lungs . I have killed 3 with a neck shot but am not that comfortable with it so it is rarely used .

    Eddie
    Grumpy Old Man With A Gun....... Do Not Touch !!

  16. #36
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    neck shorts are a little tougher then most think. cant use the fur pattern as a bone outline, and the necks change so much during the rut that its not funny.

  17. #37
    Boolit Master

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    Using a .17, .22LR, .38Spl, etc, for deer, is by definition poaching in Oklahoma. Neck shot, head shot, whatever.
    Poaching is taking game outside of regulation.
    "Varium et mutabile semper femina." - Virgil
    Man, ain't it the truth....

  18. #38
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    I have never shot a deer with a CB, but small game is another story. Where it is legal (some places I have to use rimfire or a shotgun) I prefer to use 38 special out of a lever. It is the bee's knees on rabbits. A 158 RNFP loafing along at 800 FPS may sound like overkill, but the meat damage is minimal, the entry and exit holes are identical, and they drop where they are hit. If I ever get around to trying Fall turkey hunting, I will be bringing the lever.

  19. #39
    Boolit Master Oklahoma Rebel's Avatar
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    I have heard that, but I would say I like 32 h&r mag, 32 long or 32 short, would be my choice, but same theory- bigger boolit at slow velocity, kills cleaner than a hi-vel 22lr hp
    Norinco SKS
    mosin nagant est 1937
    S&W 15-2 combat masterpiece
    Remington 597 22lr w/30 rnd clip
    12ga NEF single shot
    heritage 22lr/22mag

  20. #40
    Boolit Master Oklahoma Rebel's Avatar
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    does anyone make a rifle in those calibers?
    Norinco SKS
    mosin nagant est 1937
    S&W 15-2 combat masterpiece
    Remington 597 22lr w/30 rnd clip
    12ga NEF single shot
    heritage 22lr/22mag

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