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Thread: IMR 4227 loads for 9 mm Luger

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    IMR 4227 loads for 9 mm Luger

    I've found a couple published loads. Both show 8.8 gr. max load using 115 gr. JHP.
    I substituted a 115 CPRN and starting at 8.3 gr. worked up .1 gr at a time to 8.7 gr. So far nothing has cycled the test pistols. At 8.7 gr. the slide will occasionally stove pipe empty brass but not often. Going to try 8.8 gr. next but I doubt the additional .1 gr. will make this a winner.
    At 8.6 & 8.7 accuracy was good, better than my standard 4.3 gr TiteGroup with 115 CPRN. As can be imagined 8.7 gr. is a very quiet load too.
    Anyone have experience using 4227 in a 9mm?

  2. #2
    Boolit Bub



    tucumcari_kid's Avatar
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    I kind of avoid 4227 in 9mm, 40 and 45 auto. But it should work. 4227 likes a little compression and a heavier crimp. I would boost the crimp before I increased the load. 4227 is very smooth and has a smooth curve with less punishing recoil. I wouldn't worry about an increased load so much as if you can get the performance you want with less, using crimping etc, it's more economical and more consistent with 4227.
    -Mike

  3. #3
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    Maybe you see the same data I do. I tried to find something in the last century, but I think all I found was IMR may 2001 load data. That says 115 gr JHP with 8.8 grains of 4227 (compressed) should give 820 fps at 14500 PSI. Probably what you saw. I regularly compress 4227, and crimp it, so I wouldn't feel bad with that load. As I said I just haven't been loading autos since I got heavily into 4227.
    -Mike

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I use 4227 for .30 carbine & 357. Normally meters great, alway measured within .05 grains ( I check every fifth charge). Last 8# jug the grain length varied from .5 mm to 5 mm. Kept binding my measure drum and worse, the charge weight was +\- one half grain (.5). Wound up having to adjust each charge (100 loads). I sent pics to manufacturer & they said it was still ok to use but they'd send another jug to replace it. Second jug had a more recent lot # but same issue with grain length. More calls & pics, they said go ahead & keep it, they sent 8 lbs. H110 to replace it.
    I fired the 100 loads mentioned above with no issues. Managed to screen out the majority of over long grains in one pound. The screened stuff meters pretty well now. I shoot lots of 9 mm so if I can get a workable load, I can use the almost 16 lbs I have & save my TiteGroup for 45 acp & 38 special. Here's a pic:

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  5. #5
    Boolit Bub



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    That's weird but possibly the grains are less effected by length in this particular powder. Maybe the burn is retarded enough that there isn't a significant difference in burn rate over the surface area (I just made that part up, but it sounds really technical). I'm just intrigued by the differences... Shake well before using, I guess...
    -Mike

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    GONRA bets IMR 4227 would be useful in loooong barrel 9mm Lugers.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    It would have to be a longer than 6 inches, I tried loading 4227 for my Stoeger 6" Navy, even the max 8.8 gr. wouldn't cycle the toggle with any degree of regularity. In a 6" STI Target Master 8.7 grs. Isn't enough to eject the spent brass. Going to try 8.8 gr. with a heavy crimp in a 5" Zigana Sport once I get home. Will post results.

  8. #8
    Boolit Bub



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    Yes, I would say heavy crimp, but, I don't think 4227 has a sharp enough power curve for the essentially blowback/recoil design.
    -Mike

  9. #9
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    It may be ok pressure wise but in reality is too slow a powder for the 9mm. It's best reserved as a magnum pistol cartridge powder.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    I have to concede defeat on this one. Tried 15 rounds loaded to the 8.8 gr max. One almost stovepiped the spent brass. As GONRA stated, the load might work in a long barrel pistol or carbine, but from my experience it would require a barrel longer than 6 inches. Oh well, going to have to shoot my M-1 carbine & AutoMag III a lot to burn up the 15 1/2 lbs I have. Let's see 15.5 lbs. = 108,500 grains divided by 14 grains per round = 7,750 rounds. Should last a year or two.

  11. #11
    Boolit Bub



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    Too bad you're in Fla, I love 4227 and might could relieve the pressure on you.
    -Mike

  12. #12
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    Rattlesnake Charlie's Avatar
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    I think 427 is just too slow for 9mm. For top end loads Blue Dot and Power Pistol are hard to beat.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    GONRA bets IMR 4227 would be useful in loooong barrel 9mm Lugers.
    Probably 9mm carbines, maybe with a mag primer. I'm thinking a 115gr doesn't have the mass to sufficiently cork it long enough to really get the 4227 going, but I haven't worked with it that much. Maybe I'm missing the goal of using a powder as slow as 4227 in a 9mm with a 115br boolit. Are y'all going for low pressure and velocities? Or are you trying to find that sweet spot where the powder really gets lit to see what velocities can be had? I did this a few years back with 115gr XTP's, but I was using Blue Dot, which was about as slow a propellant as could be used with a 115gr and still get it truly lit. It worked, too. Velocities in the high 1300's and primers were more rounded than factory stuff.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    See the original post. The goal was to find an alternate use for the 15 1/2 pounds of 4227 I wound up with. But you bring up an interesting point, a 124 gr projectile tightly crimped might "cork it" long enough to burn better. The same max load (8.8 gr.) is listed for 124 grain bullet. I'm beginning to think they came up with 8.8 because that's about all that will fit in a 9mm case. Since 4227 is no longer listed in the manufacturer's recent published load data, someone must have realized it was a poor choice.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master daloper's Avatar
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    I would just tell the wife that I NEED a new magnum handgun to go with the powder I already have. Don't want to waste it.

  16. #16
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    So I went to the range yesterday. I had a bunch of 38 s&w I loaded with 4227 and some 170 grain bullets. I was getting good velocity 650 to 700 fps in 4 inch victory and 650 in snubby model 32. 125 grains were getting up to 850 fps. Not bad for the little 38 s&w BUT, and here is the fun part. I know 4227 can leave either unbut filler or actual powder granuals, I haven't decided which yet, and in that short case, with heavy crimp and heavy bullet, the powder leavings were EVRYWHERE. Jammed up the yoke, jammed up the ejector, got under the ejector and littered the chambers so bad I could not load the big bullets. That's my mileage but if that happens in an automatic, you might have an interesting time. I lover 4227, most accurate and smoothest recoil I've found, but the short cases just didn't work. Although it's another post, I DID load some 7.62 nagant revolver loads with 115 grain bulet and 4227, results were outstanding. I'll post that up tomorrow maybe.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master

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    Good powder for 300blk.

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
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