"Perfect" Bullet weight for .44 Mag Rifle?

[three50seven]

What would you all say is the ideal cast bullet weight for a 44 mag rifle? I feel like a heavier bullet would be better than the normal 240-250 grainers, but at what point does performance drop off due to lack of velocity? Once again, I am talking rifle/carbine ballistics, not revolvers.

[NSB]

Perfect for what? Intended use? Type of rifle?

[three50seven]

Perfect for what? Intended use? Type of rifle?

Marlin 1894. Just looking for a general use bullet weight that will give good performance across the board.

[NSB]

My experience with 44mags over the years has been that the lighter bullets never shot as well as the heavier ones. I'm talking about 180/200g range of bullets. The heavier bullets will shoot well, but in a lever gun could become problematic with feeding. I know people who use bullets up to 300g in some guns and report good results with them as far as accuracy. My "goto" bullet for this caliber has always been the "normal" 240g bullets. They shot very well and dropped deer like nobody's business. I'd just opt for a heavier bullet that shoots the best out of your gun. All the bullets will be suitable for medium sized game. Accuracy becomes more important so that it gets to where it needs to be. Half the fun of a new gun is finding the best load. Get a few different ones to try out and see what works the best. Good luck.

[fred2892]

Due to the marlins stupidly slow twist you need to use lighter bullets. Best accuracy in my 1894 marlin is with a 200 grain rnfp bullet.

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[Cowboy_Dan]

Due to the marlins stupidly slow twist you need to use lighter bullets. Best accuracy in my 1894 marlin is with a 200 grain rnfp bullet.

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Unless it is an 1894S. Not made anymore, but it had a more standard twist, 1:16 iirc. Ours will shoot (and feed) 320gr Keith-style boolits accurately.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Unless it is an 1894S. Not made anymore, but it had a more standard twist, 1:16 iirc. Ours will shoot (and feed) 320gr Keith-style boolits accurately.

I was unaware that Marlin made some 1894S (44mag) with a faster twist?
I had a 1894S (44mag) that was made in the early 1990s, it had the 1:38 twist.

to the OP,
a 200gr boolit should be ideal for a 1:38 twist. I mostly used 240gr jacketed bullets pushed hard, and had "OK" accuracy, I tried 265gr RF boolits and never got accuracy I was happy with. I never did try any lighter cast boolits, about the time I learned about the slow twist rate and larger bore dia, I had moved onto the 41mag, and never looked back at the 44 mag, then sold the gun (44mag).

[fred2892]

Mine is an 1894S made in 1986. It has the slow 1:38 twist. I thought all 44 mag marlins had the 1:38 twist rate. Saying that, I am not sure about the newer models with the Ballard rifling.

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[jlchucker]

Try the Lyman 429215 boolit, cast 50-50 lead and wheelweight alloy. Not much gets said about that boolit, but I found it to be excellent in a 1980's Winchester Trapper. I spent many hours plinking at clay pigeon fragments at the 100 yard berm at my club range with that combination. I hardly ever missed. I never deer hunted with it, though, but only because used another rifle for that. I don't think I'd have felt undergunned had I used it for hunting, though.

[mr surveyor]

the 265 gr GC bullets from LeadHead shoot extremely well in my Rossi R92 .... 1:30 twist


jd

[catboat]

"Perfect" is subjective, as already responded.

Are your referring to "accuracy?" If so, bullet weight is not the issue. GROOVE diameter of your barrel, and then finding the proper bullet diameter / sizing die is the answer.

Marlin's 44 cal bore run large, about .431-.432" or more. You need to first find a bullet that is .002" or so over groove diameter and size ( or really LUBE it with minimal sizing) to get that desired bullet diameter.

So, you first need to slug your bore to find out what you are starting with for barrel dimensions (Groove diameter is greater than bore diameter), then find the right bullet, and sizing die.

I'm in the process of playing with my Marlin 1894 44 mag (with "Ballard" rifling, not microgroove). The GROOVE diameter is .431". I have a NOE .432"-265 grain bullet mold (two cavity plain base, two cavity gas-checked), and .433" sizing die (depending on alloy, mostly WW, bullet diameter is .432+++, maybe .4328"?, so my ".433" sizing die will essentially just lube the bullet). That is what I will be testing it with. My Marlin has the 1-38" twist.

We'll see what happens with that combo.


Check out Night Owl Enterprises (NOE) website. They make molds with .432" and .434" diameters. Wish they made a gas checked WFN 240 grainer, or the gas checked 265 grain bullet with a .434" diameter to address Marlin's oversize bores. Maybe Mountain Molds?

I just wish Marlin, or Remlin, would wake up and make a 44 mag barrel with 6 grooves of .004" depth (REAL Ballard rifling), .429" groove diameter, and 1-18" twist. They not only would increase sales of 1894 Marlins in 44 mag, but would do big business with people wanting to rebarrel their existing "overbore" .432" 44 mag , slow twist barrels to the new barrels. I guess they don't want any more sales (turn on sarcasm filter now). They are IDIOTS by not doing so.

[longbow]

I went through the same exercise several years ago.

I wanted to shoot heavy boolits of 300 grs. or heavier through my Marlin 1894.

I wondered if the heavier boolits would use up too much power space so reach a point of diminishing returns or even lower performance than with lighter boolits.

In my testing I found that heavy boolits of 300 grs. penetrated further than 240 gr. and 265 gr. when shot into the same end grain wet wood. So no loss of performance there.

Not sure about trajectory though as I found that any boolits I tested that weighed much more than 265 grs. lost stability with those of 300 grs. keyholing at 100 yards.

I found that with my gun and loads 270 grs. was as heavy as would stabilize out to 200 yards.

So I've set 270 grs. as the max weight in my .44 mag. With 1:38" twist.

The other issue as has been mentioned in regards to Marlins, but actually all .44 mag rifles, is that they run larger groove diameter than handguns according to SAMMI specs. My Marlin runs 0.4315" groove and likes boolits of at least 0.433".

Feed it fat boolits of 270 grs. or less and it is reasonably happy and shoots fairly accurately.

YMMV

Longbow

[trapper9260]

I shoot the Lee 310 boolit in my Marlin and did what someone on here said to crimp at the top groove and It is dead on center at 50yrds. I size to .430 with GC. it also shoot 240 SWC also no problem .What i shoot in my Redhawk is the same in the Marlin.The Marlin is made in 1980.

[osteodoc08]

Everyone complains about the 1:38 twist, but isn't this what the SAAMI specs calls for? If so, cast blame on SAAMI and whomever agreed on the 1:38 twist.

Page 339

http://www.saami.org/specifications_...-SAAMI_CFR.pdf

240-250gr Boolits have worked well for me in my Marlin. Haven't shot much heavier than that.

[starmac]

I am probably wrong, but I was always under the impression that the sammi specs were for the larger bore in the rifles, not the twist rate, am I wrong?

I have a dumb question, IF sammi specs calls for a larger bore diameture, can the manufacturers even produce them with the smaller pistol specs legally?

[MyFlatline]

Due to the marlins stupidly slow twist you need to use lighter bullets. Best accuracy in my 1894 marlin is with a 200 grain rnfp bullet.

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250's do just fine...

[fred2892]

We'll you could throw them that close at only 50 yards. Let's see 5 shots at 100.

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[osteodoc08]

I am probably wrong, but I was always under the impression that the sammi specs were for the larger bore in the rifles, not the twist rate, am I wrong?

I have a dumb question, IF sammi specs calls for a larger bore diameture, can the manufacturers even produce them with the smaller pistol specs legally?

Good question. The SAAMI site has 1:38 listed as twist rate on the SAAMI site.

[longbow]

My understanding is that SAAMI specs are for chamber and bore/groove not twist or number of grooves and lands.

Who knows why they spec the rifle different than handgun for groove diameter but so they do. Stupidity in my opinion. And yes, they do spec handgun groove diameter smaller than rifle groove diameter for .44 mag. Again... stupidity in my opinion.

Not sure of any legality issues, simply industry standards.

It's bad enough that .45 caliber handguns and .45 caliber rifles have different groove diameters but they have different heritage too so understandable in that sense but .44 mag handgun and rifle being different? Stupidity in my opinion. If there is a good reason I'd like to hear it.

I believe the slow twist is inherited from .44-40 but having said that, I have had good accuracy with boolits of up to 270 grs. which is reasonably heavy for .44 mag. Now if a faster twist ensures better accuracy with heavier boolits and doesn't adversely affect accuracy with lighter boolits then why wouldn't Marlin and others adopt a faster twist? Of course I'm not the only person to pose that question.

.45-70's in general have much faster twists than .44 mag rifles and were loaded with round balls and collar button boolits up to at least 500 gr. boolits in the past so if a .45-70 can handle the vast difference in boolit weights why wouldn't a .44 mag with a somewhat more limited range of boolit weights from light to heavy?

My opinion anyway for what it is worth, which is not a bunch.

Back to the original question re ideal boolit weight... for what? Punching paper? Hunting? Self defense? Plinking? Overall efficiency? Range?

I'd say its hard to beat a 240 to 270 gr. boolit for overall performance, accuracy and range. If you want to stop a charging bear then likely a 300 to 330 gr. boolit is a better choice but range should be fairly close in my experience (certainly under 100 yards) or the boolit may hit sideways. At 50 yards or less you can likely use whatever the heaviest weight boolit the gun will feed which is another issue entirely because Marlins will not feed long or long nosed boolits over the listed max. OAL and I believe Ruger carbines have similar OAL limitations.

If you are punching paper at 50 yards then maybe you just want a 180 or 200 gr. boolit so cheap on lead and powder... I got an Accurate 165 gr. mould made for general plinking and paper punching with low recoil and cheap on lead and powder use.

Different strokes.

Longbow

[MyFlatline]

We'll you could throw them that close at only 50 yards. Let's see 5 shots at 100.

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If you can throw em that close, you don't need a gun..