Training a Lab to hunt.

[Bazoo]

I found a lab pup that is about 2 years old.

The lab is still playing and such. I have him where he will sit, and stay some, and lay down, come to me when called. And I worked him up from a 22 to a scattergun and he loves going out with me to shoot. I got him fairly well leash trained also so he dont pull me across the yard.

So.... I've never trained a gun dog before. My boxer, I trained for obedience. She does real well and loves to please me. But the lab I have different ideas for.

I want the lab to be an all around hunting dog. I want him to retrieve small game such as squirrels and rabbits. I want him to quarter and flush, and then retrieve quail. I want him to retrieve waterfowl.

I dont waterfowl hunt presently. But I want to prep him for it so that when I do get the chance, he'll be able to catch on without a problem.

Anyone recommend a book or a website to help me with this?

Thanks for the help.

~Bazoo

[Beerd]

I'm sure no dog expert but I'll bet he already knows how to hunt. Play "fetch" with him to teach the command. No tug of war, mean it when you say "give".
"Gun Dog" and "Water Dog" by Richard Wolters are a couple of good books on the subject.
..

[farmerjim]

Water Dog was a good one.
One of our labs would dive under the water, catch a fish, and bring it to us. Lost her about 4 months ago.

[Bazoo]

Thanks for the replies. I have occasionally did the tug of war thing with him. I can see how it would train bad behavior though. I have been working on getting him to release, he will sometimes, others I squeeze his throat to make him. I trained our other dogs to release this way, so i figured it'd do for him. I aint been doing no fetch yet though. Mostly I been working on sit, stay, go to your spot, not begging, leash walking, come when I call. He's doing pretty good with it all. He is doing some quartering on his own and comes good when I call. He started to chase our pet deer (she stays round the house) and the wife called and he broke chase and came back.

[Bazoo]

I started today with retrieving. He did well. I took a toy, but one that he doesnt play with in the house with the other dogs, and had him get it and bring it to me. Progressed from a few feet to about 15 yards. In about 15 minutes I had him looking for it in 12" tall grass. Id hold his collar, and throw it, then let him go and give him the command retrieve. He'd go over about it and mull around, go back and forth, and Id say look for it, and he'd find it and start back to me as I was saying bring it. It went real well. I didnt pressure him much, and rewarded the good behavior. He even placed it at my feet a few times without having to be told to release. We'll get it down.

[Bazoo]

Trying to decide if I should get him fixed. Lots and lots of folks say it will not cause a problem, lots say the other way. Anyone have advice?

[Bazoo]

I bought a copy of Larry Mueller's Speed train your own retriever. Im mostly working on obedience but im still playing the fetch game with him. I now have him listening pretty good, and he'll retrieve the dummy pretty decent, even in some tall grass. Im learning myself, but im figuring it out. I have another training book on the way. Ebay is your friend for cheap books folks.

[archeryrob]

Follow the program to the letter. I personally do not force fetch and use the dogs drive, but to each his own. Obedience is the most important thing you can do and its the basis for everything. Its going to be a rough ride with him being new and you being an inexperience trainer. When you feel any frustration STOP and put everything away and start over in a few hours or the next day. Do not hit or be verbally aggressive to your dog at training or the dog will hate training and want to get out and away from it. I got frustrated with this one once as she did not want to kennel into the field blind once training. I got frustrated and raised my voice to "get in the D@mn blind." That set me back almost two weeks to get her to love being in the blind. They learn negative things ten times faster than the right way to do it.

If you make your dog love training they will do anything you can communicate to them. Mine begs me in the morning to go out and throw her training dummies even if its just exercise and not training, she loves to do it. She loves to hunt more than me and can't understand when I go deer hunting why she can't go.

I never bother with any of that Master Hunter trails and such. My dog is just a hunting, house dog and sleeping cuddle buddy. I found hand signal easiest to teach on a 25' rope and dummies left right and back. Then command which one to go for. If they don't go the right way to check cord them back to a sit and start over. Don;t cast the dog to the last one you threw very often as its what "they" want to do. I use a shock collar but not as most trainers do. I don't shock a dog to speed it up, only for negative responses. If she doesn't whistle sit "pop" if she went for the wrong dummy I cast her too "pop". I got mine with a vibrate and use that as a reminder. You want guys where their dog is nuts and they turn into a statue when the collar is on, you are misusing/overusing the collar.

I am assuming you are already hunting. Bring birds home and use them as training props everytime you hunt. The dog will love it and build drive. Once obedient take him hunting when you know its a good spot, but don't let him retrieve. Letting him watch another dog is great if your buddy has one. Cast the dead birds when you are done hunting and pop some cheap shots off. make it seem like a real hunt, "to him". He'll eat it up with a spoon and take training to a new level of importance to him.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Trying to decide if I should get him fixed. Lots and lots of folks say it will not cause a problem, lots say the other way. Anyone have advice?

It can do some good with dogs that come from a strain deliberately bred for macho aggression. Bears considering for comparable humans, I think. But I don't think it will prevent anything but paternity suits in a sensibly bred Labrador. They aren't without behavioural problems, but they don't arise from possession of the family jewels. Likewise (though I doubt if it is your situation) I don't think it does a thing for a neurotic dog, most often one bred for many generations for bench show looks, sacrificing all else.

I think most of the things you list as wanted come pretty naturally to a Labrador. My mother's before I was born never had any gundog training in her life, but she put in a protest at being left in the car by jumping the seat twelve times (I suppose) and placing six eggs in a row, unbroken, along the back. Clearly she was saying "You have incarcerated no common mutt." The one we had later would borrow kittens and run around the garden, treating them so gently that they got to like it. You only have to channel what is in the blood.

One expected to go professional relatively late in life can easily be gun shy, but you are well past that one. The biggest problem you may face is running prematurely into the field of fire. Someday you will want to shoot rabbits in company, and rabbits are on the ground.That should be curable by training him on a slip lead, and telling her to go an instant before she can go.

[RPRNY]

Follow the program to the letter. I personally do not force fetch and use the dogs drive, but to each his own. Obedience is the most important thing you can do and its the basis for everything. Its going to be a rough ride with him being new and you being an inexperience trainer. When you feel any frustration STOP and put everything away and start over in a few hours or the next day. Do not hit or be verbally aggressive to your dog at training or the dog will hate training and want to get out and away from it. I got frustrated with this one once as she did not want to kennel into the field blind once training. I got frustrated and raised my voice to "get in the D@mn blind." That set me back almost two weeks to get her to love being in the blind. They learn negative things ten times faster than the right way to do it.

If you make your dog love training they will do anything you can communicate to them. Mine begs me in the morning to go out and throw her training dummies even if its just exercise and not training, she loves to do it. She loves to hunt more than me and can't understand when I go deer hunting why she can't go.

I never bother with any of that Master Hunter trails and such. My dog is just a hunting, house dog and sleeping cuddle buddy. I found hand signal easiest to teach on a 25' rope and dummies left right and back. Then command which one to go for. If they don't go the right way to check cord them back to a sit and start over. Don;t cast the dog to the last one you threw very often as its what "they" want to do. I use a shock collar but not as most trainers do. I don't shock a dog to speed it up, only for negative responses. If she doesn't whistle sit "pop" if she went for the wrong dummy I cast her too "pop". I got mine with a vibrate and use that as a reminder. You want guys where their dog is nuts and they turn into a statue when the collar is on, you are misusing/overusing the collar.

I am assuming you are already hunting. Bring birds home and use them as training props everytime you hunt. The dog will love it and build drive. Once obedient take him hunting when you know its a good spot, but don't let him retrieve. Letting him watch another dog is great if your buddy has one. Cast the dead birds when you are done hunting and pop some cheap shots off. make it seem like a real hunt, "to him". He'll eat it up with a spoon and take training to a new level of importance to him.

I cannot add much to this excellent advice, but have a few small points.

Water retrieves can be the hardest to train in a versatile hunting dog, but in a Lab, you are playing to his strengths. Presumably he takes to the water no problem. The best way I have found with water training is getting him to stay while you place the dummy somewhere out of his line of sight before signaling for the retrieve. Ducks are easy retrieves when they can see where they went down. Getting them used to searching for the retrieve is important.

One of my failures as a trainer has been in not getting my dog (a Pudelpointer *****) steady to the flush. It's frustrating and dangerous. We are still working on it. She was so effortlessly easy to train on virtually everything else, that my failure on this one is particularly frustrating.

I wouldn't worry too much about the tug-o-war thing. Most Labs have remarkably soft mouths and, as long as he responds well to "give" or "drop", it shouldn't matter that much.

Congratulations on a great pup!

[archeryrob]

I play tug with my Lab and she does the Kill shake trying to rip it out of my hands. But if I command drop or give she will spit it right out. It is all good if the dog knows your the alpha, in charge and respects that.

I found water retrieves with labs the easiest especially when their first goose is involved. My last one was 95# and refused to pick up his first few geese on land, but did in fine in water. They don;t seem to "think" in water and just do it. He was kind of intimidated by the size, even though he was big. A dead goose with a rope on it neck and a goose call work wonders in amping up a dog. The predator comes right to the surface when blowing the call and yanking the goose and they want to pounce on it. Then sling it and send them. If they refuse, i start over and the excitement soon overcomes the intimidation of the size.

Its really not terribly hard to train a dog for the basics.
Sit/stay
casting to downed birds
Marking and be a bit of work, but you should be able to compensate with blind retrieves with him to send he on ones he missed.
whistle sits and hand signals to direct the dog remotely.

You accomplish that and you will have a dog you will be plenty happy with. Not a Master Hunter at the field trials, but one you'll cherish. Training it yourself builds a better bond with the dog also. I personally couldn't send my dog away for 3 months, nt to mention the wife would beat my **** for even suggesting it.

[Moleman-]

Labs are easy to train as they want to please you and have a natural desire to be a hunting dog. Our last yellow lab didn't hunt until he was about a year old. Loved to go swimming so I'd take him to the ponds and leave him in the truck while I shot, then when done I'd let him out to go swim. Kept moving the truck closer and closer until finally he was sitting right behind me while I shot, waiting anxiously to go swim. He already retrieved a dummy well at home, but really enjoyed water retrieving. Practiced blind retrievals by not letting him see where the ball or dummy was thrown first on land, then in the water. Got so that if he didn't see it he'd swim in a circle while looking at me and I'd point to where the duck or goose was and walk him into the bird by either saying good boy or ehh the same as how we'd practiced on land. Not the fancy way, but it worked well. He loved hunting, and hated squirrels. Took him with squirrel hunting and he as especially happy to get those darn squirrels that tormented him. Dove hunting was easy also, but he would drop the bird a couple times on the way back to spit out feathers. Never hunted rabbit with him as my buddy had a beagle, and have never hunted pheasant or quail. He was fixed, but the black lab we have now isn't. I think the difference as individual dogs is greater than if they're fixed or not. They love to hunt, mine will whine a good portion of the way to go hunting as they get so excited. Just don't ever miss, they'll give you the what the heck look.

[Bazoo]

Thanks for all the advice. Im still working on obedience mostly. I do some dummy fetching with him in the yard and the tall grass sometimes.

[archeryrob]

Keep the dummies as special and only use them for training. Have a ball, stick or something else for general play. When you get the dummies out now, be excited and the dog will too. Mine are in the cabinet under the beer fridge in the garage. Mine comes out the house and tries to lead me to the garage and then near the cabinet. It's like Christmas every morning to her to get a dummy in her mouth now. I think she feel unfulfilled when I need to travel in the mornings for work.

Keep training short, positive, often and fun. The dog will respond and enjoy it. At two years old run through everything as fast as you and the dog pick it up. I noticed mine don't learn as fast at 6 months, but at one year they learn twice as fast.

[Bazoo]

I do use the dummy for only training. He gets sticks for everything else but not soft toys. I only have one dummy so far.