Why BH 209?

[rodwha]

So it's been suggested to me personally and I've read of several others praising the use of BH 209 over Triple 7 or even Swiss and Olde Eynsford, though not quite as much with the latter two. So my question is why?

Now with T7 I've been told it's a little more finicky and has a wider deviation shot to shot. Now if I were shooting beyond 150 yds hunting or shooting 100 yds + in matches I could see why this might be a bigger deal.

I began by shooting nothing but T7 as it was the only energetic powder I could easily find. But then came along the time where people couldn't find much of anything and I was forced online. And at that time Olde Eynsford came out on the market and an excellent price. And so I tried it instead of Swiss and like it. I'm not too sure on how the price per shot works out since T7 weighs less but I do know without needing to do math that it's still more costly.

Now BH 209 is over the top expensive and comes in a smaller container too. I've read the praises of much less fouling but the need for solvents instead of simple water (and soap if you choose it which I do).

Now I, myself, prefer to keep things as simple as possible. I don't want to need to stock several kinds of powder as well as caps/primers. Nor do I want to need to carry more variations afield. But as I have speed loaders for my guns this truly wouldn't be an issue. And a few different types of ignition isn't really a big deal, though I still would prefer to keep it all simple.

So why is BH 209 your choice over Triple 7, Swiss, or Olde Eynsford?

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

If you are shooting an inline, BH209 without a doubt is the best. For sidelock shooters, Swiss or OE will be the best top performance powders. Never had a problem with regular Goex myself.

[rodwha]

I don't care so much for inlines. I prefer sidelocks.

It's been suggested I get a Mag Spark and use BH 209.

I've mostly used Pyrodex through it as I was just breaking the new barrel in but have also used Triple 7 and possibly Olde Eynsford. Now my revolvers are fed mostly Olde E once I began buying it.

I do have primer capsules made by Doak for my ROA that use large primers but I doubt those are hot enough to use BH 209 with.

One thing I've read about BH 209 is a greatly reduced smoke cloud. I like the smoke cloud but I can see it being a hinderance when hunting. I like to keep my eyes on my animal. I haven't had one to further than about 25 yds but you never know, and this is one aspect I see being worthwhile on still days.

[ShooterAZ]

BH209 is the shizzle in Inlines, but I recommend to not waste your time or money trying to use it in a sidelock or ROA. I also recommend that you go to their website and read up on it if you are so inclined. It's really good stuff, but for for limited applications. Inlines and certain BP cartridges is where it shines.

[NSB]

BH 209 is cleaner, consistent, and readily available. Your breach plug will stay open longer and you can fire multiple shots with it without having to clean any part of the gun and still get excellent groups. I can easily go ten shots with no effects of fouling, even in the breach plug (many, many shooters have no idea how much accuracy is effected by that hole just starting to close up). It cleans up really easy. Expensive? You've got to be kidding. Unless you just shoot a LOT for fun it just doesn't enter into the equation. I don't even use a bottle (ten ounces, not a pound) a year. I spend a few bucks buying that over another BP sub, so I'm out an extra ten bucks. I spend hundreds, if not over a thousand, just going hunting here in one state every year if you add all costs up. That ten bucks isn't even a drop in the bucket. Triple7 shoots well, and I've shot a lot of it. However, it's cruddy and a mess to keep the gun clean. It doesn't shoot any better and it costs something extra just in patches and solvents to use it over BH209 if you want to count pennies.....I don't. Just no down side to BH209 if using an in-line.

[bob208]

I have used goex since I started shooting rifles in 85. have not seen a need for anything else. just shot in a match today. of 8 targets I won on 7 first place on 2. using goex and regular rws caps. don't see a need to try anything else. in a side lock keep it simple.

[rodwha]

I typically do shoot quite a bit. A pound wouldn't last me all that long as I usually make a day of it and shoot all 3 of my BP guns. I usually buy at least 3 lbs every 10-12 months I'd guess.

I've read some people state converting a sidelock to use BH209 just isn't worth it, that it only truly shines in an inline.

Less swabbing sounds great and a real plus. Especially shooting as much as I often do.

I haven't used T7 that much in my sidelock but never noticed the crud ring people speak of. I've read some people believe it is caused by hotter 209's and some feeling it's the larger volume used in inlines.

Oh, and I am frugally minded. My hobby funds are spread between several things all demanding a portion. Just by the money I'd save buying 3 lbs of Olde E or T7 vs 4 ten oz bottles of BH209 would put a few cigars in my humidor. I like cigars. A LOT!

[rodwha]

BH209 is the shizzle in Inlines, but I recommend to not waste your time or money trying to use it in a sidelock...

Why do you feel it is a waste in a sidelock? I know a percussion cap certainly won't ignite it unless one went through the hassle of a duplex charge.

[Edward]

Works fine in 6 of my side locks ,Mag Spark fires it every time and will shoot all day /low SDs and very consistent (fast) ! Down side is it is costly and I"m retired !

[koger]

Johnson 1942, has several side locks that shoot it great with mag spark primer system! I am a die hard black powder man, never had anything equal it in accuracy in the woods, on the range here in local, state shoots, and shooting on a national competition level. That being said, the velocity and accuracy with BH 209 in my 2 inlines, are nothing short of fantastic. I was wary of BH209, not having good accuracy or consistency with Pyrodex, Jim Shockey gold, T7, not even close to holy black. Roger Johnson introduced me to BH 209, and last year set up 2, TC Omega's, with the Nikon InlineXR300 scope, with real world BDC's out to 300yds, with new BDC every 50 yds! I shoot 100 grains of BH209, and a Harvester crush rib black sabot, .451 diameter 300grain plastic tip jacketed slug, that eats a ragged hole at 100yds, and a consistent 2 an1/2 inch to 2 3/4 inch 3 shot group at 300yds, off a folding table with sand bags!! In a 18-20mph cross wind at 300yds, only got a 2" or less wind drift for 3 shots. I have shot several mule deer, at ranges 170 and up, none took over 2 steps! I shot a big bodied mulie last year, with Roger Johnson, facing me, in the chest, slug exited the right ham, end to end, he took 2 steps and stood on his head, DRT. That is 4+feet of penetration, and you could not believe the damage done internally, Roger stated that it did more damage than a 7mm Mag.

Now I shot 2 cans of BH 209powder, different bullets and loads, doing load development over several weeks. I had taken several deer with these Omegas and 95 2ffg black, and the same slug, 260 grain. There was 2" difference in the point of impact between the 260 and the 300 gr slug. The accuracy is as good at 100yds, better at longer distances with BH 209. The 300 grain shoots better at long ranges, stores a ton of energy, and is deadly! After hunting with Roger last year, did not clean my rifles, till I had been back home, over 2 weeks, and absolutely no corrosion with BH 209!!! I had a guy came over last week, we went to my neighbors hay field where we have a 500yd range, and I put a cardboard deer up at a lasered 305 yds. I swabbed the barrel out to clean out any oil, popped 2 primers, loaded the Omega as stated above, took a rest over sand bag on my truck tool box, and the first shot was just about dead center of the shoulder on the target, maybe an inch towards the shoulder crease out of dead center! The guy said he could not believe it, and he saw it. I loaded a second round, shot off the truck tool box again, was within one inch of the first one, dead center in the shoulder. I loaded a 3rd round, he shot it off the tool box, and was about 2 inches lower than first two, dead center between them. He bought a Omega online next day, had me order him a scope, bullets, sabots and he picked up 2 cans of BH209. I am not one to buy into hype, but rock solid proof, on the range and in the field is irrefutable. Now I have30+ years of gunsmithing to my credit, and have shot ML's on a competitive level, locally, won the Bluegrass State games here in KY, and medaled 31 times n NMLRA events, so I am not green at this game. The only hang up with BH 209, is that it cant be shot well with certain breechplugs on some inlines. Read the info on the website, use their cleaning tips, talk to people who use it, use the right weapon, you will have no problem. Remember, I was a skeptic too, but giving it due diligence made a believer out of me!!!

[rodwha]

Roger is the one who has suggested to me that I should configure my Lyman to do so. Although he also said that BP was also very consistent and accurate but that T7 wasn't so good. We had a long talk several years ago.

Inlines don't float my boat but I have been interested in a muzzleloader topped with a Malcolm style scope for hunting across fields and such. 200 yds would really be stretching it for me though.

[ShooterAZ]

I would say go for it then. Are you planning on using sabots? BH209 needs a really tight seal to work efficiently. If you do decide to do it, please let us know how it works for you. Nothing to lose I suppose, except maybe a little money.


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[OverMax]

BH209 use.
Easily fired up with a Mag Spark nipple or a Musket cap nipple.

Although BH 209 is said to be a dandy powder. I'm kind'a old school.

Home made powder always gets rod'ed before Gorex 2-F in my smoke poles. And that's the only 2-powders I use.

[rodwha]

At the moment I doubt I'd use a sabot though I've certainly entertained the idea of resizing my 285 grn WFN just to see what happens.

As is I have a mold for the 250 and 320 grn Lee REAL. The 320 grn shows promise.

I've also entertained the idea of having Accurate make me a shorter Lee .500 for my 1:48" twist. And I've also considered a barrel with a faster twist or seeing if a Lyman GPH can be modified for my Lyman Deerstalker.

I still come back to liking that all of my accessories work with all of my guns but have wondered if altering a long range gun to use BH 209 was worth my while or if I should stick to the 3F Olde E or T7 I currently use and like.

I'm not exactly a purist but for some reason it just feels wrong.

Will a musket cap ignite BH 209? Seems I've read some 209's aren't even hot enough.

I'm a bit curious what 70 grns volume weighs. Maybe the 10 oz bottle gives about as many shots as a pound of Olde E or T7.

[garandsrus]

Another difference with 209 is that it is lighter than an equivalent volume of BP so even though the bottle is less than a pound, it is rouhly equivalent to a pound of BP or substitute.

[ShooterAZ]

The "Muzzleloader" 209 primers aren't recommended for BH209, not enough spark. I use CCI209 Magnums in my inline with 95 grains of BH209 and a Hornady 250 grain saboted bullet. I have no experience with musket caps, so I can't comment on that. I have a 54 caplock too, but never even considered using BH209 in it. I use Goex 2F for it, and it works fine out to 100yds or so.

[bob208]

the only thing I can see inlines have really done is raise the cost per shot of muzzleloaders.

[NSB]

the only thing I can see inlines have really done is raise the cost per shot of muzzleloaders.

I shot side locks for many years and killed quite a few deer with them. I started using in-lines for two reasons: I liked shooting them during the regular firearms season, and they shoot much tighter groups than side locks and extend the range (if you know what you're doing) out to around three hundred yards. You simply can't compare the two just on cost per shot. I doubt many people base their choice of a hunting gun on how much it cost per shot to shoot them. After buying all my equipment, time off work, food, lodging, accessories, etc., paying fifty cents more to shoot the in-line over the side lock is kind of a moot point. If that becomes a serious consideration it's time to find something else to do. They're both fun in their own unique ways.

[bob208]

I don't think the inline shoots better or farther. in the old days they would shoot 200 rods{ 220 yds.} which was the norm. they shot farther then that also.

[rodwha]

I know some sidelocks shoot quite accurately out to 1000 yds, but then those are match rifles. However I've read of more basic rifles such as some by T/C and Lyman that are plenty accurate out at 300 yds such as the rifles Idahoron and the ones he's helped with do.

I'm a bit more simple I suppose. I like all of my guns to work well with the point blank zeroing system. I don't need gadgets or ballistics calculators to figure it out. I prefer the idea to keep it within 4" of 0 for a little bit of wiggle room in case an estimation is off but this would keep shots within 150-175 yds and I've really been wanting to push 200 yds for a field rifle. I must admit I'm rather curious about the peeps and range work Idahoron uses to shoot well so far and with that bit less than aerodynamic .50 cal bullet he loves.

The one bullet I found that might well meet my desire with what I assume will be my powder charge (70-75 grns of 3F Olde E) is the Hornady 200 grn SST in .40 cal. But then I'd need a .45 cal rifle...