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Thread: Durabitlity and reliability, which handgun is the best?

  1. #141
    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
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    I have enough lead and wherewithal to keep myself shooting my reloads for at least 4-6 years without purchasing more(Not purchase supplies? Ha!). I was actually expecting to be dealing with a different set of political circumstances up until November so I invested in what I could find at then reasonable prices.
    I do a lot of practicing with my 22lr in both rifle and handgun, but it doesn't give the same feel as a centerfire.
    As I said in a previous post, I probably already own the weapons I will end up with. I want to know if I am missing a bet on something that I have no experience with. Hence the original question.
    I don't know about what I don't know and haven't seen. That is why I ask for opinions and experience.
    I don't think I ever went through the stage where I thought I knew everything. I have always sought out experts and experienced people in everything I have been interested in. Many of the best and most useful ideas I have come across came from people like the ones on this forum. People who have combined lifetimes of experience and are willing to share it.
    I try not to ask stupid questions. I have certainly asked a lot of uninformed questions over the years, but that is how I learn.
    I think at some point in the near future I will need to go to a range and rent a Glock for an hour or so to see if I might like one. I have zero(0) experience with them so that is probably the best way to get up close and personal with one and see if I like them.
    Petrol and Powder is correct in that I am not planning for or preparing for a Zombie Apocalypse(there--I said it). That said, some of the better, long term gun ideas come from such thoughts so I am not going to reject any ideas out of hand just because of where they come from. That scenario parallels where I think I an heading to a certain extent. I just expect the world as we know it to be around long enough to supply me with spare parts and replacement guns for quite a while yet.
    Please feel free to continue responding to this thread. I am finding the responses very interesting and thought provoking.

  2. #142
    Boolit Master


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    I'll be honest here. I personally do not like Glocks yet I own two of them. The triggers if your used to a 1911 just plain suck. I realize I will draw fire with what I am going to say but the ONLY way I could even stand to shoot one was to invest $70.00 in goodies to make the trigger a 3lb instead of what felt like 8-10lbs. I bought the entire spring kit along with the block assembly that allows me to get rid of the over travel. Once that was done I found that with practice I could not only shoot reliably but accurate. The first Glock was a model 23 which is 40 cal. I also invested in a Lone Wolf 9mm conversion barrel along with 2) 9mm magazines for it.

    The second Glock I purchased was a model 35 which comes with a decent trigger out of the box. I purchased it simply because it came with 3) aftermarket barrels and a comp along with the stock barrel. I promptly sold 2 of the barrels one of which was a 40 cal barrel and the other a 357 sig barrel. The barrel I have on it right now allows one to screw on a comp which does seem to help with recoil. Took it out the other day at 25 yards and shot a 1" 4 shot group and then managed to throw the 5th shot an inch outside of them. This is with a gun that I have put less than 100 rounds thru.
    They will shoot but I still hate the triggers.

    So, having said that I will also mention that IF you purchase a Glock I would buy a model 22 or 23 and then invest in the goodies I mentioned and also have a stock set of springs and stuff. I would look toward the law inforcement trade ins which you can get a good deal on. If you like 9mm I would invest in a aftermarket conversion barrel so you can shoot lead without a second thought. Yes, I do know that a lot of people have shot lead thru their stock Glock barrel myself included. Getting a model 22 or 23 allows you two calibers if you opt for the 9mm conversion barrel.

  3. #143
    Boolit Master
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    I also have two Glocks. A G22 (full size .40) and a G21 (full size .45). I have Lone wolf barrels for both; the one for the G22 is 9mm conversion. I like the fact that police turn in Glocks are cheap and there's a lot of aftermarket support. I've bought Korean mags for way under $10 each.
    But if I wanted a double stack "wunder-nine" type pistol that I expect to outlast me even if I shoot it extensively, I would get a steel-frame CZ-75 or clone. I know this because I do want one of those, and I did buy a steel-frame Canik CZ-75 clone.
    If I wanted an autoloading pistol I could shoot extensively and expect to outlast me, along with the expectation that I can always get parts for it, cheaply and just about anywhere in the world, I would get a 1911. Do and did.
    But I don't think any autoloader nor double action revolver is as durable and reliable as a Ruger Blackhawk, just as I don't think any autoloading rifle is as durable and reliable as a Mauser '98.

    As for some zombie apocalypse, I don't recall seeing anyone mention anything of the kind until P&P blew a gasket over it. I do however remember the second half of Obama's term when it became nearly impossible to find primers and most (especially pistol) powders, not to mention percussion caps... and then pretty much stayed that way for a few years. I didn't run out of primers, powder, lead, ammo, percussion caps, or anything. But I did learn some new skills as a means of conserving what I had, and I largely fell back on single action revolvers including cap and ball. I had been into those types of guns since the '70s, and I returned to them for a lot of my shooting to conserve my other stuff.
    All my life I've seen the ratchet effect irt guns, ammo and loading components. Things have eased up a bit now, but the ratchet never backs up far.
    I'm happy about the things I learned during those years (making black powder and primers, for example), and I don't intend to forget them; nor assume the same thing won't happen again. Maybe worse next time.
    Last edited by Tracy; 08-27-2017 at 10:28 PM.

  4. #144
    Boolit Master
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    My pick is my Freedom Arms 83 in .454 Casull with it's extra .45 Colt's cylinder and most factory options.

  5. #145
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tracy View Post
    I also have two Glocks. A G22 (full size .40) and a G21 (full size .45). I have Lone wolf barrels for both; the one for the G22 is 9mm conversion. I like the fact that police turn in Glocks are cheap and there's a lot of aftermarket support. I've bought Korean mags for way under $10 each.
    But if I wanted a double stack "wunder-nine" type pistol that I expect to outlast me even if I shoot it extensively, I would get a steel-frame CZ-75 or clone. I know this because I do want one of those, and I did buy a steel-frame Canik CZ-75 clone.
    If I wanted an autoloading pistol I could shoot extensively and expect to outlast me, along with the expectation that I can always get parts for it, cheaply and just about anywhere in the world, I would get a 1911. Do and did.
    But I don't think any autoloader nor double action revolver is as durable and reliable as a Ruger Blackhawk, just as I don't think and autoloading rifle is as durable and reliable as a Mauser '98.

    As for some zombie apocalypse, I don't recall seeing anyone mention anything of the kind until P&P blew a gasket over it. I do however remember the second half of Obama's term when it became nearly impossible to find primers and most (especially pistol) powders, not to mention percussion caps... and then pretty much stayed that way for a few years. I didn't run out of primers, powder, lead, ammo, percussion caps, or anything. But I did learn some new skills as a means of conserving what I had, and I largely fell back on single action revolvers including cap and ball. I had been into those types of guns since the '70s, and I returned to them for a lot of my shooting to conserve my other stuff.
    All my life I've seen the ratchet effect irt guns, ammo and loading components. Things have eased up a bit now, but the ratchet never backs up far.
    I'm happy about the things I learned during those years (making black powder and primers, for example), and I don't intend to forget them; nor assume the same thing won't happen again. Maybe worse next time.
    1911's? I have seven of them. I prefer them to any Glock alive any day. Ruger? I had a super blackhawk and never shot it. Not nearly as nice in my opinion as a Smith model 29 or 629. Ruger red hawk? Still couldn't give me a Ruger but then again just my opinion.

    Tazman.... all your going to get with this thread are going to be opinions hundreds of them. Reliability? Give me the 1911 anyday. Available rounds in the magazine? Definately something else with a higher count. Solution? 1911 with a dozen or two magazined loaded on your person ready to go.

    What this thread needs to do is compromise and select something that will provide a lot of bang for the buck and then have additional parts stored just in case something breaks and then have a second identical model as a back up and that with additional parts.

  6. #146
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=The Governor;4124602]Yes it does. Wonder what broke on that 28.[/


    I don't know what broke on his 28 but mine slid out of the zippered case(unzipped) and landed on the concrete floor. It didn't put a mark on it but it locked up tight. I couldn't get the cylinder to open or the hammer back or the trigger to pull double action! Sent it to the factory and $190 later it was back in action. As much as I love those S&W wheel guns, it makes you wonder just how much torture they will stand.
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it

  7. #147
    Boolit Master
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    [QUOTE=murf205;4138415]
    Quote Originally Posted by The Governor View Post
    Yes it does. Wonder what broke on that 28.[/


    I don't know what broke on his 28 but mine slid out of the zippered case(unzipped) and landed on the concrete floor. It didn't put a mark on it but it locked up tight. I couldn't get the cylinder to open or the hammer back or the trigger to pull double action! Sent it to the factory and $190 later it was back in action. As much as I love those S&W wheel guns, it makes you wonder just how much torture they will stand.
    WW1 british decided that they loved revolvers, but that in the trenches they envied americans with 1911s. looser tolerances kept them running longer. But tighter tolerances on a smith and Wesson or any revolver will keep things running nice when taken care of.

    Its somewhat the argument of "can a 500$ AR be called mil spec quality or just be called a quality product, when the entire upper shreds itself after a 1000 round mag dump when put on a full auto lower?"

  8. #148
    Boolit Master






    Lloyd Smale's Avatar
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    there you go. The super blackhawks and redhawks are built like a school bus.
    Quote Originally Posted by OlDeuce View Post
    Ruger Super Blackhawk .44mag

    Ol Deuce
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

  9. #149
    Boolit Master


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    [QUOTE=Minuteshaver;4139382]
    Quote Originally Posted by murf205 View Post

    WW1 british decided that they loved revolvers, but that in the trenches they envied americans with 1911s. looser tolerances kept them running longer. But tighter tolerances on a smith and Wesson or any revolver will keep things running nice when taken care of.

    Its somewhat the argument of "can a 500$ AR be called mil spec quality or just be called a quality product, when the entire upper shreds itself after a 1000 round mag dump when put on a full auto lower?"
    I don't know what kind of upper you used that shreded itself when put on a full auto lower. My experience being around full auto stuff says just the opposite.

  10. #150
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale View Post
    there you go. The super blackhawks and redhawks are built like a school bus.
    As good as they may be they still break as do all guns. There is no absolute best when it comes to trying to select something for when it hits the fan. This is why this thread in my opinion is pointless. There will be countless pages of answers and 1000 guns with each one getting points for being the best.

  11. #151
    Boolit Master






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    I agree. A lot too depends on what you expect when shtf. Do you think your going to be foraging for food and maybe have to turn away a bumb trying to get a meal or do you think you might have neighborhood free for alls or do you think there will be an all out invasion end of the world senerio. For the last I don't want any handgun I want a good semi auto rifle like an AR or AK. For the middle something like a glock but even then an AR would be preferable. For the first and if I knew FOR SURE that's the way it would be a super Blackhawk would be hard to beat. Yes they all can break but id take a ruger super over a Taurus or Rossi anything. Probably before any smith and Wesson revolver too. A FA is tank strong too but if it ever did break your going to have to travel many many miles to find another to scarf parts from. So in fact there are choices that are better then others. Just like in a semi auto gun. Sigs, M&Ps ruger pc's and H&Ks are great guns but if I had to choose it would be either a glock (again because parts will be everywhere because they sell more glocks then all others combined) The other would be a beretta because there are just thousands of them in service in the military so finding parts would be easier and both glocks and 92s have proven to be good reliable guns.
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

  12. #152
    Boolit Master






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    [QUOTE=6bg6ga;4139466]
    Quote Originally Posted by Minuteshaver View Post

    I don't know what kind of upper you used that shreded itself when put on a full auto lower. My experience being around full auto stuff says just the opposite.
    Ive got 5-600 dollar ars that have fired more rounds then probably ANY AR in service today with the possible exception of a boot camp gun that's shot every day. I know many times ive put 500 rounds in a day through them without cleaning and they never missed a beat. The difference between a 2ooo dollar AR, a milspec AR and a 500 dollar AR aren't even close to justifying the extra money. If your real conserned buy a good bolt group for 200 bucks keep your old for a spare and an extra lower parts kit and a couple recoil springs and your probably set for life in ANY SHTF senerio. About 10 years ago I bought 4 extra lower parts kits, 2 complete bolt assemblys and some recoil springs and there ALL still in the wrappers. Never had a thing break on an ar. By the way my most expensive one is a stag that cost me a grand new. Mostly because of the fancy 4 rail that I never use.
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

  13. #153
    Boolit Master scattershot's Avatar
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    I'm not a big fan of Glocks, either, but in your case I would seriously look at them. They seem to be as reliable as the sunrise, and if YouTube torture tests are any indication, darn near indestructable. Parts and aftermarket accessories are everywhere, and if you buy a .40 (22,23,etc.) you can get conversion barrels to let you shoot 9mm, too.

    Good luck!
    "Experience is a series of non-fatal mistakes"


    Disarming is a mistake free people only get to make once...

  14. #154
    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
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    Not certain I want to buy a pistol that needs to be re-barrelled in order to shoot my cast reloads. I understand that many people have no issues with cast in their Glock handgun original barrels.
    If anyone were to have a problem with that, it would be me.
    Just for the record, I don't powdercoat or use Hitek coating. I tried them and it just didn't work out for me.
    I also find it interesting that, even though I said I couldn't shoot single action handguns well, people keep recommending them. I know they are overbuilt an in other people's hands are quite accurate. I just can't shoot them well.
    Due to arthritis, I am limited on the recoil I can handle. 357mag and 45ACP are currently my upper limits. To use either of these cartridges, I need a relatively heavy and full size firearm. This limits me to lower power cartridges and handguns with lower recoil. Even light weight pistols in these two cartridges are painful and difficult for me to shoot.
    I think it is boiling down to Smith & Wesson revolvers and/or 1911 pistols.
    I am not badmouthing other makes or styles of handguns. These appear to be the ones that will work for me.
    Thank you all for your input.

  15. #155
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    Good morning
    Still using the Glock 40 S&W barrel in our model 22 that came with it when the police sold it off 15 years ago. Have shot maybe only 7000 of our cast 200 grain cast through it. No lead in those poly grooves as we learned a long time ago about cast fit in a barrel.
    Shoot the same load in our 2 Kel-Tec model 2000 (Glock mag) 40 S&W carbines. All use the same Glock mags and go chunk, chunk, chunk.... so regular we do not think about reliability any longer. They go where we go when in a car when up north.

    1911... Have a Remington Rand (1943) that has digested every cast I have tried 185's to 255's. As long as the case has enough powder to cycle it, it will feed. Have not tried a "trash can" shape. It has slide rattle, barrel is not fitted. Just as it was issued and shot until a troop liberated it. I would be perfectly content to risk my future with just that one 1911. It rides the 2 wheeler a lot with me when up north there.
    Mike in Peru
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    Home built Matchlock similar to what an early 1600 Colonial soldier might have.

  16. #156
    Boolit Master


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    About those AR's...

    I buy mil spec parts only as MOST parts are. Mil spec means these parts are within the same tolerances and generally the same material with respect to steel grade, hardness, and so forth. The idea that a $2k gun is better than a gun you can put together for $500 is plain stupid. You pay the money for something that says "Rock River" on it or whatever your favorite expensive brand is. I 've shot next to the same bench as a "Rock River Guy" and simply out shot him with my $500 gun.

    I can buy a 2K watch but that doesn't mean it will keep any better time or outlast my Seiko. The money I have saved on building my own AR simply means I have more money to spend on either other guns or other equipment.

    For the shif my vote is for a AR in 5.56 for clearing crowds of those wishing to enter your property without being asked in so to speak. Having said this....have on hand additional parts to re-furb the lower, additional parts for the bolt or an extra bolt and an extra barrel and don't forget the tools.

  17. #157
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    Not certain I want to buy a pistol that needs to be re-barrelled in order to shoot my cast reloads. I understand that many people have no issues with cast in their Glock handgun original barrels.
    If anyone were to have a problem with that, it would be me.
    Just for the record, I don't powdercoat or use Hitek coating. I tried them and it just didn't work out for me.
    I also find it interesting that, even though I said I couldn't shoot single action handguns well, people keep recommending them. I know they are overbuilt an in other people's hands are quite accurate. I just can't shoot them well.
    Due to arthritis, I am limited on the recoil I can handle. 357mag and 45ACP are currently my upper limits. To use either of these cartridges, I need a relatively heavy and full size firearm. This limits me to lower power cartridges and handguns with lower recoil. Even light weight pistols in these two cartridges are painful and difficult for me to shoot.
    I think it is boiling down to Smith & Wesson revolvers and/or 1911 pistols.
    I am not badmouthing other makes or styles of handguns. These appear to be the ones that will work for me.
    Thank you all for your input.
    First of all the process of changing a barrel on a Glock takes less than 2 minutes and I have arthritis in my hands too and I'm still working and will be for the next 6+ months. Back to the barrel... its a simple process of removing the slide, taking out the recoil spring, installing the new barrel and replacing the spring. Once that is done you simply put the slide assembly back on the lower and its ready to rock and roll.

    As much as I love my Smith&Wessons I would have to leave them in favor of a Glock, or 1911. As I mentioned before I would have additional parts on hand for either.

    Having mentioned the word Glock again I would opt for the full sized model. I like my model 35 Glock which is 40 cal. I believe the same sized gun is also available in 9mm if one wants it. Again I would opt for a caliber I could find that is NATO if possible. The 1911 with what I have either loaded up already or could have loaded within a few hours has me putting it also on my list.

  18. #158
    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
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    I had an interesting conversation with a dealer in Moline a couple of days ago concerning AR15 style rifles.
    His claim was that 80-90% of all the lower receivers used by most AR "manufacturers" are made by just 3-4 companies. Pretty much the same for the uppers. Also most of the internal parts are made by 1-2 companies. Pretty much the same for the barrels.
    His point was that you pay the extra money for the extras on the weapon. Stocks, grips, rails, and other accessories are where the extra money comes in for the most part unless you are doing a custom rifle. His idea is that there is no real functional difference between a $500 AR and a more expensive one since all the working parts are from the same manufacturers.
    I have no 1st hand knowledge of this so I can't dispute his claims.
    Is he right or mistaken?

  19. #159
    Boolit Master
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    He's pretty much correct. The number of manufacturers may be wrong. Specifically w/ the barrels because there are more than two. But there are a limited number of manufacturers for the parts. Same lower receiver just different roll marks.

  20. #160
    Boolit Master
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    FN and colt make roughly 80% of all ar lowers. the issue is, they don't use mil spec material for each one.

    GO to palmetto and midway and actually look at the material and method used to make each lower and upper reciver. Youll see quickly that most are not how do you say, made from the same material and method and heat treatment as genuine mil spec guns are.

    Most are just junk. If the 500 budget ghetto AR was built from quality components, why the hell should the end user have to spend 300 on a genuine military full auto bolt group?

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check