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Thread: Durabitlity and reliability, which handgun is the best?

  1. #101
    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plate plinker View Post
    SHTF time I want what my local PD runs, because well you know.......... they have stuff I might wish to borrow.
    I like that idea except for one thing. I live in a small town that doesn't have it's own police force. We have a single part time officer for weekends. The rest of the time, officers come from the county seat which is 20 minutes away at least unless a patrol car just happens to be nearby.
    I will need to take care of immediate concerns by myself. Even though I live in town, I have no really close by neighbors. Nearest is about 100-150 yards away. They may never know something bad is happening unless the gunshots wake them up.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    I like your supply situation. It's a good thing to be prepared. My only question is, if you have to move and can't take it all with you, what do you take?

    Well, unless it hits real hard really fast I will have ammo in spots that are already picked out. The AR-15's the 5.56's will probably go. Anything in a NATO caliber will be going. Think about the NATO ammunition thing here and you will soon understand. As much as I dearly love my 357 or my 45LC they will be hidden. Only NATO calibers like I mentioned will go. Oh, forgot the 308 FAL.

    I have totes already loaded and ready to be put into a deuce and a half if the need arises. There are a number of us that have thought this out and have devised a plan.

  3. #103
    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
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    Nice to have a support group. Nothing like that around here that I am aware of.
    I understand the NATO thing completely. I own rifles in 223, 308, 243, and 30-06 not counting 22lr.
    I also have handguns in the common calibers.
    I have a better selection of rifles than I do of handguns at the moment. That is one of the reasons why I asked the original question. I may want to pick up another handgun.
    Any of my difficulties will have to be handled close to home though, and that includes uninvited visitors.
    I intend to practice with my handguns a lot to stay proficient. I need durability so they still work when needed even after years of use for practice.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    ................
    I intend to practice with my handguns a lot to stay proficient. I need durability so they still work when needed even after years of use for practice.

    /\Thank You tazman. /\

    Having a handgun that will survive years of heavy practice and remain reliable, is a worthy criteria.

    Having a large cache of weapons and ammo in preparation for some Armageddon like collapse of civilization is getting more than just a little out of touch with reality. I have a large collection of firearms, as do other members of this forum but I assembled that collection because I enjoy shooting, reloading and collecting firearms. If you amass a large cache of weapons in preparation for some weird dystopian future that looks like a Mad Max movie; you might want to take step back and think about that.

  5. #105
    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder View Post
    /\Thank You tazman. /\

    Having a handgun that will survive years of heavy practice and remain reliable, is a worthy criteria.

    Having a large cache of weapons and ammo in preparation for some Armageddon like collapse of civilization is getting more than just a little out of touch with reality. I have a large collection of firearms, as do other members of this forum but I assembled that collection because I enjoy shooting, reloading and collecting firearms. If you amass a large cache of weapons in preparation for some weird dystopian future that looks like a Mad Max movie; you might want to take step back and think about that.
    I used to think like that and did get a bunch of ammo and guns. Then life intruded and the weapons got sold to pay hospital bills for my wife. The ammo got sold or shot up over the years. Now I keep just enough on hand that I don't need to load any for a couple of weeks.
    Nowadays my idea of SHTF is taking care of a small group(3-5) of intruders who wish to harm me and my family. I am too old and out of shape to have any realistic chance of surviving something really bad.
    I just enjoy shooting and trying to be as accurate as I can. My fantasies now are about shooting one hole groups at 25 yards or with the rifle at 300 yards.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder View Post
    /\Thank You tazman. /\

    Having a handgun that will survive years of heavy practice and remain reliable, is a worthy criteria.

    Having a large cache of weapons and ammo in preparation for some Armageddon like collapse of civilization is getting more than just a little out of touch with reality. I have a large collection of firearms, as do other members of this forum but I assembled that collection because I enjoy shooting, reloading and collecting firearms. If you amass a large cache of weapons in preparation for some weird dystopian future that looks like a Mad Max movie; you might want to take step back and think about that.
    I'll slightly disagree here. I DID make a couple of firearms purchases that were out of the norm for me, before this last election. My concern was two fold, I was fearful I wouldn't be able to purchase them, and I wasn't sure how much unrest there would be after the election. I didn't go totally crazy, but purchased around 300rds for each and immediately set myself up to reload for them.
    This election is also what led me to get into casting, and joining this forum. I could foresee the ammo shortages getting much worse if Hillary won.
    Then with the civil unrest we are seeing now, I'm glad I made those purchases and need to amass some more ammo, not hundreds of thousands of rounds, but certainly a thousand of each caliber I have.
    Quote Originally Posted by sniper View Post
    Irish Proverb: Never approach a Bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or an Idiot from any direction!

  7. #107
    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
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    A thousand rounds of ammo for each of your firearms isn't unreasonable in the least. That's only a few weeks shooting if you practice much at all.
    The only ammo I have much of at the moment is 22lr. We all saw that shortage last way too long.
    I also purchased a couple of firearms at about the same time you did because I didn't know if I would be able to get them after the election.

  8. #108
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    As far as handguns, I had to return 3 of the last 4 Rugers I purchased to the factory to be fixed. Worse record of any firearm company I have owned. Never had to return a Glock or S&W. So my choice would be S&W or Glock.
    Tennessee

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowwolfe View Post
    As far as handguns, I had to return 3 of the last 4 Rugers I purchased to the factory to be fixed.
    Sent the last five I bought back in w/ one being a rifle. They are on my do not buy sight unseen list. Which coincidentally is made up entirely of just Ruger. None of them should have gotten past QC. Hopefully the market slowdown will cause them to have quality control in house. Not use the end user for it.

  10. #110
    Boolit Master gnostic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Governor View Post
    Yes it does. Wonder what broke on that 28.
    I'm not sure, the cylinder won't lock closed. I cleaned it of dirt and can't see anything that might keep it from locking up...

  11. #111
    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnostic View Post
    I'm not sure, the cylinder won't lock closed. I cleaned it of dirt and can't see anything that might keep it from locking up...
    The only time that ever happened to me, the ejector rod had come unscrewed and was too long to allow the cylinder to close.

  12. #112
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    If you're on the Queen Mary 2 sailing across the Atlantic there's a really good chance you will make it to your destination. However, we still equip the ship with lifeboats, put supplies in those lifeboats and conduct some lifeboat drills. That's sound preparation designed to improve the odds of a favorable outcome if there's an emergency.

    If you wear a life jacket, keep your pockets stuffed with water bottles and granola bars and have a satellite phone duct taped to your chest; for every minute of the 7 day crossing; you might be in paranoid mode.

    The same analogy applies to amassing weapons for some type incredible civil disorder and the collapse of society.

    I'm prepared but I don't have some illusion that I'll hold off a city full of rioters.
    Last edited by Petrol & Powder; 08-16-2017 at 10:46 PM.

  13. #113
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    I'm an old Boy Scout, and I always took the motto 'Be Prepared' seriously. And, I am my fathers son, I remember driving way up north in Canada as a kid to go fishing and he carried four spare tires and a tire repair kit and a hand pump. Plus a well stocked tool kit, jumper cables, extra oil, and a couple of cans of gas. All of this in a 63' Olds pulling a pop up camper with a 14 foot boat on top of the camper. Man, that car was a tank.

  14. #114
    Boolit Master robertbank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder View Post
    If you're on the Queen Mary 2 sailing across the Atlantic there's a really good chance you will make it to your destination. However, we still equip the ship with lifeboats, put supplies in those lifeboats and conduct some lifeboat drills. That's sound preparation designed to improve the odds of a favorable outcome if there's an emergency.

    If you wear a life jacket, keep your pockets stuffed with water bottles and granola bars and have a satellite phone duct taped to your chest; for every minute of the 7 day crossing; you might be in paranoid mode.

    The same analogy applies to amassing weapons for some type incredible civil disorder and the collapse of society.

    I'm prepared but I don't have some illusion that I'll hold off a city full of rioters.
    Best reply on the thread!

    I live in a city of 13K and there is not enough wildlife to support 10% of the population here. If the SHTF in the US and spills over to Canada, I think I have a decent book and chair I can sink into with a nice single malt.

    I only need three bullets when that times comes as I have a dog. On balance I think I will work hard to ensure the time never comes. Rather hope you folks do as well.

    Take Care

    Bob
    Je suis Charlie

    Growing old is hard work...The mind says "yes" but the body says, "What the hell are you thinking".

  15. #115
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    my thoughts on some answers.
    every one is picking the gun they use. maybe because that is the one they have used for years with out problems and already have dies mold and brass for. so they would not pick a new plastic wonder.

    maybe I am just lucky but I have 20 rugers never had a problem never had to ream a cylinder or send one back. I know 15 other people in real life with the same results.

    as far as shtf I am with our Canadian friends. I will set back on our mountain and watch the glow of the cities burn in the far distance.

    I am an old boy scout also. when I go on a long trip. I put an extra spar tire in the back of the truck plus a full can of gas.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragon813gt View Post
    I have to laugh at the people suggesting a 1911. They are finicky guns that require hand fitting the parts. They require quite a bit of maintenance as well. Time has passed the model by. They are still great guns but in the context of this thread I don't know why anyone is suggesting one.

    The real answer is; there is no best. Buy and use what works for you. Personally I'd buy a Beretta 92 variant and follow the maintenance instructions. Or buy a Glock along w/ a bunch of spare parts. The thing about them is that there isn't a lot of parts in them to fail. The parts are cheap enough to have replacements on hand. Kind of like an AR15.

    I could tell you what my favorite pistols are. But, I never attempt to take the triggers apart because they are a puzzle and then some. One would eventually break and I'd have to fix it. I can change out the trigger on a Glock quite easily. Ease of working on should be high on the list.
    I literally laughed out loud when I read this.
    First, 1911: the Internet thinks 1911s are finicky and require tinkering, hand fitting and a shop full of tools in the same way that the Internet thinks AKs are totally immune to any kind of failure. Both ideas are incorrect. I've owned and/or used quite a few 1911s, mostly on the inexpensive side including a few of the cheapest ones money can or could buy. All of them have been reliable. None of them have broken down. There are more and cheaper parts available worldwide for the 1911 than for any other pistol in the world, if you ever even need any parts. I've swapped parts and replaced parts on various 1911s (because I'm a tinkerer, not because they needed it) with no need for hand fitting.
    Back before the Internet and before Glocks and Beretta 92s even existed, I used to believe what I read about the 1911 having a weak point in the barrel link. But then I realized that you can buy ten spare barrel links for less than 20 bucks if you're worried about it. I'm not, since I have never seen nor heard of an actual instance of barrel link breakage.
    As for the shop full of tools, the 1911 requires fewer tools to work on than a Glock. That's because a 1911 requires no tools to completely detail strip. It is its own tool box: http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/toolbox.htm
    All this stuff you hear about 1911s being finicky and requiring tuning refer to high dollar match guns that are built with tight clearances for target accuracy; not to duty 1911s. Comparing the reliability of something like that to a duty Glock is disingenuous at best. My 1911s have all been fed unsized tumble-lubed cast bullets and even 255 grain Keith revolver bullets. I've always heard that 1911s shoot cast bullets like they were designed for them. I have found that to be true.

    That leads us to Glocks. I have two Glocks, each with an extra aftermarket barrel to enable it to be more cast bullet friendly. There have been more than enough discussions about cast bullets in Glocks so that I don't need to hash it out here. Suffice to say that a typical out of the box 1911 is a better cast bullet shooter than a typical out of the box Glock.
    Now, the reason I have a couple of Glocks is because police turn-in Glocks are cheap. Almost as cheap as a brand new basic, lower-tier (RIA etc.) 1911. Also mags and parts are fairly cheap. Not as cheap as 1911 mags and (non-high-end) parts, but cheap relative to most other auto pistols. And there are a few (as opposed to a few hundred for the 1911) manufacturers of parts for Glocks.
    But here's the main reason I would take a 1911 over a Glock for longevity: Glocks have way too many plastic and stamped sheetmetal parts. I know that the younger generation has been "taught" by the enviro-wacko leaning public education system that plastics last forever, but it just ain't so. UV, solvents, heat, oils, flexing and who knows what else eventually degrades any polymer to the point of failure. 1st gen Glocks are not very old, but quite a few of them have already failed due to degradation.
    Anyone who is still on the fence about 1911 vs. Glock longevity really should strip a Glock and a 1911 and compare all the functional parts.

    Beretta 92/M9: The US military specified slide replacement at 3,000 rounds and frame replacement at 5,000 rounds as a result of actual testing. Enough said.

    Personally, for durability and reliability I wouldn't choose any autoloader. My top choice would be a three-screw Blackhawk in .45 Colt. It would be nice to have a spare .45 ACP cylinder too. As a backup I would take a Ruger Old Army, because I can make my own powder and percussion caps and it doesn't need cartridge cases.

  17. #117
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    I hate to be unimaginative but the glock 34 would get my only vote. The armory where i work has glock 17,18c,19 & 34 trainers that have over 100,000 rds each and have been treated like red headed step children. The things still empty mag after mag non stop.

  18. #118
    Boolit Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Amusing to read all of the above. You would have loved the cigar smoke and booze twinged discussions between TRADOC and ARDC in the 1980s. Seems Barry McCaffery won... Now the Army is going to buy 42K of the 35mm MXT135 Counter Defilade Target Engagement System to arm the guys at the tip of the spear. A $12,000 weapon what shoots $45 a pop HE-Frag ammo to kill a $5 enemy who once he figures things out will make increased use of human shields so the new toy will result in another 4-5 civilian innocents wounded as collateral damage for each round set off.

    I really doubt the range and effectiveness claims, all of us who ever used the M79 or M203 know better. Too heavy, too short range, not enough payload...Sure sounds like poor economy and lousy tactics, but reading all of the above, you guys all seem to want the Amazing Wonder Gun! Mel Tappan is causing mini earthquakes with his laughter!!!!

    ME, I'll just take my Ruger Original Vaquero with .44-40, .44 Magnum, .45 Colt and .45 ACP cylinders, squirting the .45s down the .44 barrel because it can, and as back-up I'll have my .357/9mm Blackhawk convertible, then I can use about any ammo out there that I can glean that falls off the alien spaceship or that I find in one of you guy's caches...

    Just remember that if you stand and fight you'll never live to shoot'em all...
    Last edited by Outpost75; 08-24-2017 at 04:49 PM.
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  19. #119
    Boolit Master tazman's Avatar
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    I really didn't intend to start a religious war about someone's favorite handgun.
    I wanted to get opinions about a handgun I can shoot 200 rounds through each week for years and still be certain it will do it's job when an uninvited bad guy or two comes calling in the night(or afternoon, morning, etc).
    Much of the information here is really good stuff and I appreciate it immensely. Opinions and experience are what I asked for after all.
    I don't have experience with many of the firearms talked about in this thread. That is precisely why I asked the question and I thank you all for your replies.
    Please keep the information coming.

  20. #120
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    What is your liking? Wheel guns or semi-automatics tazman? What caliber do you wish to shoot? Do you wish to handload or purchase factory ammunition? Maybe a few answers on what you like would help obtain better recommendations.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check