.30-40 Krag and AA5744

[richhodg66]

Messing with a sporterized Krag I recently acquired. I've been shooting up some 311284s I found a can of in my dad's stuff, I'm pretty sure a friend of his cast them and they are hard, no idea what the alloy is.

I shot up the last little bit of IMR4198. I'm kind of stingy with my stash of SR4759, which worked pretty well too. Shot some with 23 grains of 5744 today and they are plenty accurate enough for hunting. I'll eventually cast some of my own 311284s with soft noses for that purpose.

I'm thinking of increasing the charge a grain at a time and seeing if/where accuracy starts to drop off. The Lyman manual says you can go up to 28 grains, but I don't know. I'm guessing 23 gives 1500 FPS, which oughta do the job with a bullet that heavy. It's not giving and signs of pressure, but it recoils more than I'd have guessed and sure doesn't seem like a wimpy load.

Any thoughts? I really like this old rifle, someone did a good job sporterizing it and with the receiver sight and good trigger pull it has, it should make a fin hunting rifle.

[Scharfschuetze]

I use the 314299 Lyman design in my unaltered Krag rifle. While I rarely use 5744 in my rifles, I have found it to be useful in the Krag and it actually shoots better than my SR 4759 loads, at least in my Krag. My issue with it though is that its double base formula really heats the barrel up fast... faster than with jacketed bullet loads. That's prescription for faster throat wear to what is probably an irreplaceable original barrel in excellent shape.

Lyman 314299 sized to .313," Alox lube, 208 grains with GC and lube.
RP cases, CCI 200 LR, OAL = 3.125"
24 grains of 5744

Ave: 1831 fps, Es: 35, Sd: 12 for 7 shots

Accuracy is 2 MOA for the load.

I once harbored dreams that I could equal original Krag velocities with my cast bullets in the 210-220 grain range, but the 1 in 10" twist really has kept my acceptable accuracy velocity to under 1,900 fps. Perhaps a paper patched bullet might get there.

[richhodg66]

Well, might just go to 24 and stop if accuracy is still there.

[CHeatermk3]

Quote from Scharf:
My issue with it though is that its double base formula really heats the barrel up fast... faster than with jacketed bullet loads."

I saw the same thing in my Mosins--shoots good but heats up fast. Shouldn't be a problem in the woods.

Saw in another thread where a guy annealed his boolits' noses by standing them up in a pan of water and heating the noses with a propane torch--I didn't know you could soften lead that way but he showed recovered boolits that seemed to prove it out that it's do-able.

It's in an article in the current Fouling shot by Dave Federline.

[richhodg66]

There's a sticky that Bruce Bannister outlines how to cast soft nosed bullets. I've done it, and it's tedious, but five or six would get a guy through the season. One day I may try the annealing noses, but I think for the number of them I'd need, it would be easier and more consistent to cast them with soft noses.

Or, I could just use one of the flat nosed designs I have, but I like that long, heavy 311284.

[tdoyka]

165gr ranch dog with 25.5gr of h4198 is my 30-40 krag load.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product...roducts_id=307

[richhodg66]

I have a ranchdog mold, and it's a good bullet. I killed a nice buck with one a few years ago in a .308. For some reason, I'm kind of hung up on this heavy bullet. I've heard the 311284 was designed for the .30-40, not sure if it's true or not. If I deviate from it, I'll likely try the RCBS 180 grain FP, it's a good one too.

[gnoahhh]

Rich, I used the 311284 for hunting with Krags off and on over the years, and likely will again this year. While I like the bullets and the mold I cast them in (an old Ideal) I really wish it were a hollow point mold. I'm seriously tempted to invest in another 311284 mold and have it be hollow pointed.

Actually, the first deer I ever shot with a Krag, 47 years ago while a senior in HS, was with a bullet from that same mold. I remember buying it at a small gun show for around $5. In my then (and some would say current!) ignorance I cast them hard, with a mix of WW's and babbitt metal that my Gramps gave me. (I still have some of that babbitt metal- three buckets full goes a looooong way, especially when one forgets he has it 99.9% of the time.) I had to shoot that rascal multiple times as I figure those bullets zipped through like FMJ's.

[Loudenboomer]

Rich I like the 311284 in the 30-40 it is a classic for this cal.. My bore slugs .3095. My mold drops the largest boolits @ .311. I size at .311. Seats the GC and removes fins and feathers is about it. Some bores run larger than mine and the newer 311284 molds don't work all that well. What does your bore slug?

[richhodg66]

Haven't slugged it. I'm lazy, any nominally .308 bore rifle gets .311 bullets. Works most of the time.

I do have a very old single cavity Ideal 311284, but haven't cast with it in a long time. Still have quite a few around. The ones I've been using were some I found when we moved my folks into assisted living. I'm sure Dad didn't cast them and I think I know who did, a friend of his that passed a long time ago and Dad took some stuff off his widow's hands. They are cast HARD. OK for paper targets, but I will most likely cast something more malleable and make a few up by melting six or seven .177 airgun pellets and pouring soft noses for a few for hunting. That bullet is so heavy, it oughta do the job even if that soft nose shears off.

[richhodg66]

Well, I think this afternoon's shooting session has me settled on 24 grains of 574 as a deer hunting load.
I'll probably switch to a different bullet and some kind of lighter powder charge for a plinking/practice load, but that heavy 311284 cast properly will be deadly on deer the way it groups.

[gnoahhh]

IMO the trick to getting accuracy with the 311284 in the Krag is twofold, and goes to the heart of accuracy with any long nose bearing bullet. Make sure the drive band portion fits the throat, period. Secondly make sure the nose rides perfectly on top of the lands. With a couple Krag service rifles over the years the noses of bullets out of my old 311284 mold were loosy-goosey on the lands and accuracy was lackluster. In others it was perfect. Lots of variation in Krag bore dimensions, as noted repeatedly by others.

[madsenshooter]

One of my first Krag experiments was with a high nitro powder, Blue Dot, under both both jacketed and cast loads. I noticed it didn't take long for the rifling in the throat, which wasn't full height, to get eroded from the heat. It didn't take a whole lot of rounds before bullets that I'd previously put into the rifling no longer touched at the previous OAL. Original Krag barrels have no chrome moly in them.

[richhodg66]

One of my first Krag experiments was with a high nitro powder, Blue Dot, under both both jacketed and cast loads. I noticed it didn't take long for the rifling in the throat, which wasn't full height, to get eroded from the heat. It didn't take a whole lot of rounds before bullets that I'd previously put into the rifling no longer touched at the previous OAL. Original Krag barrels have no chrome moly in them.

Wow, I'll need to take it easy on her. It's such a fun rifle, I've been shooting it quite a bit.

[Gewehr-Guy]

Madsenshooter,lately I've been shooting the Krag a lot with Herco and plain based bullets, around 9-10grs. with a 175gr bullet. I imagine they are about 1200 fps or less, should I be concerned about wear or were your loads with B-dot much faster ? I also use 2400 and RL-7 at higher velocities but the herco loads sure are cheap and fun.
I suppose I should get a throat erosion gauge and start watching for wear in certain rifles that are shot a lot.

[madsenshooter]

My BD loads were a lot faster, 2000fps for both jacketed and cast 168s. Maybe 2400-2500 with the .310 diameter 123gr V-max. There was enough heat to give the case necks a bit of a bluish tinge. They all grouped great and I was reluctant to go on to slower powders!

[Ben]

I like the 311284.
However , for a game animal I'm using this one, a 210 gr. from Accurate.
It is a shooter !

3 rounds at 50 yards :

[richhodg66]

Ben, do you know what velocity that load is giving in your .308?

That thing looks like a hammer! I believe it would surely get it done.

[Scharfschuetze]

Madsenshooter,lately I've been shooting the Krag a lot with Herco and plain based bullets, around 9-10grs. with a 175gr bullet. I imagine they are about 1200 fps or less, should I be concerned about wear or were your loads with B-dot much faster ? I also use 2400 and RL-7 at higher velocities but the herco loads sure are cheap and fun.
I suppose I should get a throat erosion gauge and start watching for wear in certain rifles that are shot a lot.

Heat and high pressure gasses are the usual culprit in throat wear. Compare a 30/30's barrel life to a 300 Magnum's barrel life and the difference is huge.

Given that, your Herco loads produce neither much heat per shot nor much pressure. I'll bet it would be hard to measure any wear to the barrel using your load. My plinker load in the Krag is a 98 grain 32/20 plain base bullet and I use Bullseye powder.

[Ben]

Ben, do you know what velocity that load is giving in your .308?

That thing looks like a hammer! I believe it would surely get it done.

I'm guessing around 1,600 fps or so ? ?
I've used the same powder charge with a 311290 flat point ( done by Erik ), and have killed several deer with that bullet also.

I'm a believer in a big meplat out front to transfer energy to the animal.

Ben