How much sizing can the forcing cone do?

[CraigOK]

A member made this statement-
"The forcing cones in the .44 barrels are large enough to accept standard pressure .45 Colt and .45 ACP loads from the appropriate cylinders and squeeze them through the .44 barrels without any signs of spitting or excess pressure.

Not recommended practice, but when SHTF any cylinder that fits will be used ith with any ammo that fits....."

I'd never thought about that and it just made me wonder. This is just curiosity, I dont plan to dabble in it. Share your thoughts and experience

[Outpost75]

That was me.

Both of my Ruger Vaqueros in .44 Magnum and .44-40 have HUGE forcing cones, large enough to accept a .44-40 cartridge, case neck and all with free space all around it! Inserting a .45 Colt bullet pulled from a factory round suggests their forcing cones were cut to normal dimensions for a .45!

It appears that Ruger didn't change their setup when changing from .45 to .44 Vaquero barrels. I say this because both of my Vaqueros, built two years apart, were cut this way. Interestingly, the forcing cone of my .44 Magnum Super Blackhawk is much tighter, as is my S&W Model 544. While a huge forcing cone might be more forgiving of sloppy timing and loose cylinder lockup in a worn out work gun, it is not the ideal choice for gilt-edged target accuracy. It appears not to affect practical field utility, grouping of one inch per ten yards being satisfactory for a fixed sight utility gun. The Ruger barrel extension protrudes minimally through the frame opening and the threaded barrel shank is well supported. The large Vaquero is not a strength issue, and it doesn't lead either.

While comparing both .44 Vaquero forcing cones to the one in my .45 Blackhawk convertible, I tried both Blackhawk cylinders (.45 ACP and .45 Colt) for fit in both Vaquero frames. Both fit, time and index with acceptable cylinder gap. Cylinder interchangibility combined with generous tolerances entertains interesting fantasies for expedient emergency ammo exploitation after “TEOTWAWKI.” Hmmmm….

Knowing from experience testing Ruger revolvers at the factory, I knew all large frame Ruger single-actions, such as the Original Vaquero are “hell for strong.” I decided, purely for academic curiosity to shoot a few W-W factory 255-grain, standard pressure lead bullet .45 Colts and some cast lead .45 ACP wadcutters in both Vaqueros to see how well the "Squeeze Bore" Ruger .45/.44’s performed.

Most people would expect that playing .45/.44 "Squeeze Bore" firing .45 Colts through a .44-40 barrel would run the pressure and velocity up, but this was NOT the case. Velocities with the Vaquero were NORMAL for what you would expect for the larger cylinder gap. Cases ejected easily and came out “smoky.” Experience testing standard pressure loads in .38 Special, which are normally loaded with fast-burning powders similar to Bullseye, 231 or Unique, the observed Delta-V of sampling hundreds of guns from police orders, was about 10 fps for each 0.001" change in cylinder gap from a "Mean Assembly Tolerance" of 0.006" /-0.002"/+0.000, the build standard at Ruger for new revolvers before proofing. With a similar pressure, lead bullet round like the .45 Colt, similarly loaded with "fast" powder I would expect the same result, and that is exactly what the data here show.

But the proof of the pudding is in the shooting. If you look at this pair of 18-shot chronograph targets shot at 25 feet while resting over the roof of the car, if one were to guess which group was the .45 M1917 S&W and which was the .45/.44-40 Squeezebore Ruger, most people not tipped off ahead of time would guess wrong! Kids, please don't do this at home! But I knew that inquiring minds would want to know.

Velocity Test of .45 Colt converted 5-1/2" S&W M1917 vs. 5-1/2" Ruger .44-40 Vaquero with .45 Colt NM Blackhawk cylinder

Ammunition___________________S&W converted M1917_________________Ruger Vaquero .44-40
_____________________________New .45 Colt Cylinder_________________NM Blackhawk .45 Colt cyl.
_____________________________Cylinder gap 0.004"___________________Cylinder gap 0.008"
New Winchester 255-grain lead___852 fps, 17 Sd, 40 ES_________________793 fps, 12 Sd, 32 ES
Old Western 255-grain Lubaloy___866 fps, 20 Sd, 52 ES_________________799 fps, 8 Sd, 21 ES
200-grain FN, 7.2 grs. Bullseye___945 fps, 14 Sd, 34 ES_________________912 fps, 14 Sd, 42 ES

Firing standard pressure factory lead .45 Colt loads and factory .45 ACP GI hardball or wadcutter ammunition, accuracy is normal and there are no signs of high pressure, no spitting or anything unusual. While not recommended practice, if I wanted one revolver for when the end of the world comes I'll take either one of my .44 Vaqueros and the four cylinders and be equipped to shoot any ammo which falls off the tailgate of the alien spaceship.

Attachment 201787Attachment 201788

[contender1]

While this may stir some debate,,, the forcing cone is a taper cut,, to assist in alignment of a bullet as it enters the barrel. The final sizing occurs in the barrel, not the forcing cone from my simplistic way of thinking.

[white eagle]

looks like you got a multi caliber gun
hooray for ruger

[Outpost75]

While this may stir some debate,,, the forcing cone is a taper cut,, to assist in alignment of a bullet as it enters the barrel. The final sizing occurs in the barrel, not the forcing cone from my simplistic way of thinking.

Sort of like this?

Attachment 201803